Alcohol

Mar. 6th, 2020 02:46 pm
liv: ribbon diagram of a p53 monomer (p53)
[personal profile] liv
Dear internet: we need to have a word about alcohol.

Alcohol is NOT a magic potion for warding off viruses!


Yes, in some circumstances, concentrated alcohol will destroy the Coronavirus, because it has a lipid coating (that is, in fact, the "corona" part of a corona virus). Vaguely waving alcohol around will not protect you from catching the disease, nor from transmitting the disease if you have it, nor from serious symptoms of the disease. If you've become impure from touching a taboo thing, touching alcohol won't make you holy again. If you soak an item covered in virus particles in alcohol for several minutes, then yes, probably most of the virus will be denatured. But that's not what you're doing if you squirt some magic fluid on your hands or a surface.

The main point of using alcohol is to make your hands and any surfaces you touch less dirty. Any dirt that has been touched by an infected person may have live virus particles in it that could infect another person. We use a lot of fancy Greco-Latin words like "hygiene" and "sanitizing", but basically all these words mean: in a potential pandemic, keeping yourself and your environment clean is the best protection you have. It's still not magic, you might be the cleanest person ever and you might still be unlucky and catch the disease, but the spread is likely to be a lot slower if everybody ups their cleaning game.

Alcohol is a good solvent. Alcohol mixed with water at about 75-80% concentration is an even better solvent. Yes, you read that right, slightly dilute alcohol is better than pure alcohol. A decade or so working in biological labs with cancer cells really drummed this into my brain. If you carefully clean a surface with a good solvent, most of the dirt, and hopefully most virus particles that have become attached to the surface via the sticky dirt, will be dissolved. If you merely put some alcohol on a dirty surface without actually removing the dirt, all you've done is make it easier to absorb the dirt through your membranes when you touch the dirty, wet surface and then touch your face. (Try not to touch your face. I know, it's basically impossible.)

Similarly, if you vaguely squirt some alcohol onto your hands, your hands will probably still have viruses on them that they have picked up from touching dirty surfaces. You need to actually use the alcohol to clean your hands thoroughly, making sure to include every crevice and fold of skin.

There is a massive pile of evidence showing that soap and water is better than alcohol for cleaning your hands and preventing infection spread. Alcohol-based hand gel is used in circumstances where proper washing with soap and water is infeasible for some reason. Don't "sanitize" your hands instead of washing them thoroughly, with soap, under running water. Sanitizing your hands is better than doing nothing, but it's worse than washing. And if you are in a situation where you can't wash your hands (most obvious example: in the middle of a journey by public transport), you still need to use the hand gel properly, by actually rubbing it across all parts of your hands and then drying them or allowing them to dry before touching any dirty surfaces. Don't wash your hands and then immediately grab the door handle or handrail or press the button when they're still wet (or even worse, still sticky with soap or gel), otherwise you will pick up more dirt than if you did nothing in the first place.

If you're a private individual, you can wash your hands with soap and water the same way you always do, just more frequently and more thoroughly. You do not need to stockpile hand gel, and you certainly don't need to attempt to make your own personal supply. My guess is you won't succeed anyway, unless you have fairly serious experience and equipment for dissolving alcohol in a gel. Same goes for antibacterial soap: yes, it is somewhat effective against the lipid-based corona which the virus shares in common with bacteria. But it's still not a magic potion, you still need to wash your hands thoroughly, rinse them thoroughly, and dry them thoroughly. Personally I disapprove of antibacterial soap for general use because it creates a selection pressure for resistance, but you might think that a ongoing pandemic is reason enough to make that tradeoff. But if you are using antibacterial soap, the main point is still that it is soap, which cleans things. You have to actually make the effort, not just buy the special protective potion.

Now, if you're someone with a skin condition and you can't safely use ordinary soap, you won't be able to do this, but you probably already have your own working alternative to soap and water. Nothing good will come of switching to alcohol-based or antibacterial products.

If you're someone who feels his masculinity is threatened by properly cleaning his own body and his environment, well, you're probably not going to listen to some scientifically trained female with a sense of social responsibility. But you might, just possibly, want to consider whether it's worth the risk of getting a nasty novel respiratory virus just to prove you're too manly for housework and personal hygiene.

When you have finished cleaning your hands or potentially dirty surfaces, you want to get rid of the wipe that you use to do this cleaning. Throw your paper towel or your chemical wipe or your rag or whatever it is away. Don't leave it lying around, covered in virus-bearing dirt that you removed from the offending surface. Yes, I know that goes against ecological principles, but again, you are making a trade-off between reducing the harm due to a pandemic, and wasting resources.

Also, if you end up in lock-down or self-isolation or your normal daily life goes to shit for whatever pandemic-related reason, you may well choose to drink a lot of alcohol to get through that situation. That's fine, that's your personal choice, but don't kid yourself that getting drunk will act as a magic anti-virus talisman because you read somewhere that alcohol kills viruses. My personal opinion is that if I'm facing a potential novel illness, I want my liver and my immune system to be in as good shape as possible, but obviously it's up to you.

And if you are feeling smugly superior because you're not "panicking" over something with a lower fatality rate than the common flu, well, I advise you to read and ponder this brilliant post by [personal profile] siderea about denial. And then consider improving your washing habits.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-06 04:10 pm (UTC)
crystalpyramid: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crystalpyramid
Ok, so rubbing hand sanitizer on things is not effective if you don't wipe it off? It seems like our culture is getting that massively wrong...

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-06 04:18 pm (UTC)
sporky_rat: Joker running from bad things, Mass Effect 2 (disability)
From: [personal profile] sporky_rat
Yes! Thank you!

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-06 05:35 pm (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
This popped up at just the right time as a friend had just asked about what would work for cleaning crutch grips and wheelchair push-rims and whether conventional cleansing wipes would work if they couldn't get hold of high-percentage alcohol wipes.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 03:45 am (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
IANA health care professional, but I'm a fairly knowledgeable layperson, and I would personally advise mimicking hand-washing as closely as possible: that is, apply soapy water (a cleaning spray, or soap lather on a wet rag/paper towel), scrub thoroughly, and rinse off if possible or wipe off with a clean rag/paper towel if not. If that's not an option, cleaning wipes are certainly not bad, especially for hard surfaces like wheelchair push-rims or doorknobs or light switches, but I would not expect them to get nooks and crannies quite as well as a real wash. I have a toddler and we use a lot of disposable and cloth wipes, and washing hands properly gets them much cleaner than wiping them does.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-06 10:38 pm (UTC)
silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
From: [personal profile] silveradept
Handy and useful information, thank you.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-06 11:02 pm (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
seen on twitter recently: some poor social media person for a vodka brand c&ping the same text and link to a whole bunch of people who were suggesting making hand sanitizer out of that brand of vodka

since the vodka is 40% alcohol and the CDC guidelines (at that link) say hand sanitizer should be 60% alcohol or better

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 03:55 am (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
you still need to use the hand gel properly, by actually rubbing it across all parts of your hands and then drying them or allowing them to dry before touching any dirty surfaces

I wish this were being broadcast as widely as directions for proper hand-washing with soap and water.

My household is stocking up on hand sanitizer and bleach wipes, since we use them generally and it's not bad to have them on hand, but while I was placing the order I added a couple of big refill jugs of (non-antibacterial) liquid soap, because we're going through that a lot faster.

Thank you for this post—really important information to get out there.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 09:41 pm (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
We had a household run-in with norovirus and conjunctivitis two winters ago, so we already have a ton of alcohol wipes (big ones for light switches and doorknobs, not just the little swabs) and established cleaning protocols. Which reminds me to put my bottle of kid-friendly benzalkonium chloride hand sanitizer in Kit's backpack.

I wonder whether it's literally that directions are printed on the label and people are expected to read and follow them? I don't know. But I'd love to see a video equivalent of your rant go, um, viral. (Boy, I wonder whether that phrase is going to fall out of favor.)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 04:49 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Yes. I work in a pharmacy, and I wash my hands frequently - I've stepped that up and also use hand sanitiser when I don't have time to get to the sink and wash my hands properly, but hand sanitiser is a useful stopgap, not a substitute for washing!

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 08:19 am (UTC)
cesy: "Cesy" - An old-fashioned quill and ink (Default)
From: [personal profile] cesy
Yes, thank you.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 11:50 am (UTC)
gingicat: deep purple lilacs, some buds, some open (Default)
From: [personal profile] gingicat
Question - is it okay to throw my microfiber cleaning cloths straight into a mechanical washer on hot? I use a good detergent plus OxyClean.
Edited (Soap) Date: 2020-03-07 11:51 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 09:48 pm (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
We have a bin for kitchen rags, cloth baby wipes, washcloths, etc., and everything that goes in it gets washed on the "sanitary" cycle intended for cloth diapers. All our hand towels and bath towels are washed on the regular hot cycle once a week. I've never had an issue with anything surviving being laundered on hot and dried on high heat, including things like yeasts that are much more complex organisms than viruses.

So to verify what you're saying, if one washes hands with soap and water as directed, and then dries those clean hands with a cloth towel that's only used for drying clean hands, the towel should still go straight in the wash just on the off chance it picked up something the soap missed? In that case I might stock up on paper hand towels for a while.
Edited Date: 2020-03-07 09:57 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-09 06:15 am (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
You're so kind to check. Yes, this sort of thing is fine for me: it's practical and actionable, and it's relevant far beyond the current situation, so it falls in the category of "useful things to know" rather than "aaaa pandemic aaaaaa". And I have OCD, which fortunately doesn't include real germophobia—if it did, I wouldn't have chosen to share my life with three cats and a small child—but does mean that it's immensely soothing to talk about good ways to keep things tidy and clean. Conversations like this aren't scary; they're where I go to feel better after reading about the scary things. So bring it on. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-07 09:56 pm (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
You can call your washing machine's manufacturer to find out what temperature "hot" is. For our LG single-unit washer/dryer, cold/warm/hot/extra hot are 30/40/60/90ºC. If your washer doesn't have an extra-hot setting, 60ºC water plus soap plus prolonged agitation and exposure will do a fair amount of good. But the most effective thing is high-heat drying.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-08 04:19 pm (UTC)
naath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] naath
My washing machine is labelled in degrees C not "hot", what useless manufacturer just says "hot" when they could say "60C", gah. I don't have any ability to dry things with intense heat though, nothing beyond "stick on radiator"

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-09 06:16 am (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
Heh, that's probably a U.S./rest of the world difference.

Line drying in the sun is a good option, if sun is available. I'm always baffled by the relative lack of clothes dryers in the U.K., not known for its warm sunny weather...

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-09 08:54 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Small kitchen means no space? Also dryers are bad for the environment and your clothes. We have a heated airer, but it's not even as hot as the radiator. In summer we get sun.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-10 11:53 pm (UTC)
ephemera: celtic knotwork style sitting fox (Default)
From: [personal profile] ephemera
Thank you for some much-needed sanity

(I am Not Going To Say Anything to the staff member who has added dispensers of anti-bacterial soap to sit alongside the dispensers of regular soap in the bathrooms in our building, because .. maybe the psychological benefit is worth something to them, and it's not going to be *worse* than the regular soap at cleaning hands?)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-03-13 07:12 pm (UTC)
warriorsavant: (Default)
From: [personal profile] warriorsavant
Yes, but everyone knows one gets coronavirus from drinking Corona beer. Good thing we drink Molsons here in Canada. (*snark*)

Thank you for a good precis.

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