Election reaction
May. 6th, 2005 08:46 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
livI woke up this morning to news of the Labour victory. Well, to be honest, I knew when I went to sleep last night that Labour were going to win, and really, I was pretty certain when I voted at 9 o'clock yesterday morning that Labour were going to win. And it's not exactly like I'd be dancing in the streets if the shambolic, unelectable band of racist scum calling themselves the Conservative party had defied all expectations by winning this election.
But what really socked me when I was woken by the radio this morning was hearing that George Galloway has taken Oona King's seat. Most politicians are lying, toadying, power-hungry demagogues; it's depressing, but that's human nature. However, Oona King is, I believe, a genuinely good person, and George Galloway is, frankly, actively evil. King is quite a bit to the left of Blair, so if the consituency wanted a socialist, why not a sane, dedicated, principled socialist rather than a nutter?
I'm just hoping that the people who voted for him were unaware of his violently antisemitic views. It's not something he emphasized in his campaign, unlike in the 70s when he was elected in Dundee on an overtly antisemitic platform, and very nearly drove the century-old Jewish community out of Dundee altogether, as well as inciting violence and nastiness which continues to this day. Perhaps people voted for him as a protest against the Blair government and the Iraq war. I can sympathize to a point. But, you know, people, he was thrown out of the Labour party for what amounted to treason. Not treason against the Labour party, actual treason against this country where he is now an MP again. Ugh.
All I can say is, at this moment I'm extremely glad that I have skills and qualifications which should make it easy for me to live anywhere in the world. And if![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rysmiel wants to hold forth about why democracy is a poor method of government, or indeed why Montreal is a wonderful place, at this particular moment I'm likely to be more than usually susceptible to such arguments.
Today is the 12th day, making one week and five days of the Omer.
But what really socked me when I was woken by the radio this morning was hearing that George Galloway has taken Oona King's seat. Most politicians are lying, toadying, power-hungry demagogues; it's depressing, but that's human nature. However, Oona King is, I believe, a genuinely good person, and George Galloway is, frankly, actively evil. King is quite a bit to the left of Blair, so if the consituency wanted a socialist, why not a sane, dedicated, principled socialist rather than a nutter?
I'm just hoping that the people who voted for him were unaware of his violently antisemitic views. It's not something he emphasized in his campaign, unlike in the 70s when he was elected in Dundee on an overtly antisemitic platform, and very nearly drove the century-old Jewish community out of Dundee altogether, as well as inciting violence and nastiness which continues to this day. Perhaps people voted for him as a protest against the Blair government and the Iraq war. I can sympathize to a point. But, you know, people, he was thrown out of the Labour party for what amounted to treason. Not treason against the Labour party, actual treason against this country where he is now an MP again. Ugh.
All I can say is, at this moment I'm extremely glad that I have skills and qualifications which should make it easy for me to live anywhere in the world. And if
rysmiel wants to hold forth about why democracy is a poor method of government, or indeed why Montreal is a wonderful place, at this particular moment I'm likely to be more than usually susceptible to such arguments. Today is the 12th day, making one week and five days of the Omer.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 08:41 am (UTC)Really? Treason's still a capital offence, isn't it...
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 08:51 am (UTC)Besides, Galloway was never officially tried and found guilty of treason. So it's my opinion that he's a traitor, not legal fact. And much as I hate the man, I would not advocate killing him.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 09:45 am (UTC)What about sleeping with the wife of the heir to the throne? Isn't that what they wanted to throw at Major Hewitt?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 06:29 pm (UTC)Indeed you can't. It's still something that the law would frown upon, but the UK officially has no death penalty at all, as of some time in Labour's first term I think.
I remember people were suggesting that when it was topical, yeah. But I don't think it was actually legally plausible, in my understanding at least. There is a crime of 'interfering with the legitimate succession', which can be a form of treason. But unless Diana had actually had a child by Hewitt, I don't think this would have come into play.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 09:10 am (UTC)Here's something more worth caring about: Fataḥ in the lead over Hamas (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4515715.stm) in Palestinian local elections.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 06:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 09:43 am (UTC)I've only just managed to get to the BBC and read about last night (I'd ring my Dad but he's probably only just gone to bed :P), so I'm a bit slow. Bit narked that my home town has returned the King of Smarm, Mr. Bradshaw, but what can you do, eh?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 06:42 pm (UTC)I'm pretty certain that was him, yes. He's had various extremely unsavoury involvements with Hussein in his career. Now admittedly, pre '91 most senior politicians were kind of pally with Hussein, but Galloway carried on sucking up to him long after the rest of the world had wised up. He's been accused of taking money from various nasty Arab regimes, too, but I'm not sure which if any of the allegations were actually made to stick.
Not a whole lot, beyond vote and hope. Dundee is utterly safe Labour, and my 'home' constituency, the one where I voted for the first time *sniff* surprised nobody by staying Con. But I take some vicarious gratification in the fact that Cambridge itself swung from Labour to Liberal, even though Cambridge has never actually been my constituency.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 10:05 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 06:51 pm (UTC)You get yourself on the electoral register next time, ok?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 12:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 01:36 pm (UTC)Let's see. I didn't make it clear in my post that Galloway was a local councillor here in the 70s, not an MP. He organized the twinning of Dundee with Nablus. That's well documented, and it's not intrinsically a bad thing, but the way it was done was in the spirit of a deliberate insult to the Jewish community. There was a lot of unpleasantness associated with that incident. (The town hall here still flies the Palestinian flag, though I think for most people today this is a symbol of Dundee's thriving Palestinian expat community and willingness to send aid to Palestine, rather than an antisemitic gesture.)
At around the same, he led a campaign to get the hundred-year old synagogue demolished. Eventually a compromise was reached whereby the synagogue was in fact knocked down to make way for a shopping centre, but the Jewish community received financial compensation and were able to build a new synagogue. But the debate over the whole issue was extremely acrimonious and involved a lot of really nasty comments about the Jews in general and specific members of the community.
The rest is, I'm afraid, a mixture of hearsay and guilt by association. Hearsay in that most of my Jewish friends who have lived here long enough to remember the Galloway era say that the relationship of the Jewish community with the town really went downhill at that time and there's still a lot of bad feeling. The Jewish cemetery has been vandalized repeatedly, the synagogue has been attacked, including being defaced with swastikas, and generally people feel less safe. Plus, the council and police have been reluctant to the point of obstructive when it comes to dealing with these things. I don't claim this is all due to Galloway's personal influence, that would be completely exaggerated! But it's something that has very much come to the fore after the nasty rhetoric when he was a significant political figure here.
Apart from that, my view is based on Galloway's long association with the nastier elements of the political left. The most recent incarnation is the Stop The War Coalition, which includes in its membership mostly perfectly decent people who genuinely oppose the war in Iraq (as do I), but whose power hierarchy is full of dubious organizations who want to blame the war and everything else on the "international Zionist conspiracy". Given Galloway's history, I'm unwilling to class him with the innocently misled crowds who were horrified to find themselves marching with people carrying 'Jews out' banners when they intended to be protesting against the war.
The Respect manifesto says they are anti-Zionist rather than antisemitic. I hope that's true, and more specifically I hope that most of the people who voted for them believe it.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 02:49 pm (UTC)However, I suspect that the controversy over Labour's campaign posters was more a matter of oversight, rather than actual anti-semitism. Certainly I know I wouldn't have made the anti-semitic connections, because I just don't think like that.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-06 07:03 pm (UTC)IMO the Labour campaign against Howard was exactly that, though: a nasty, vicious personal attack, but much more to do with the fact that he's leader of the opposition than the fact that he happens to have Jewish ancestry. It wasn't the official Labour campaign that was antisemitic, more certain remarks that were made about Howard in the media were tending that way; I don't blame Labour for that. I did wince when he was called a 'mongrel' though!
As for the Conservative party, I'm really disappointed that they have turned to racism. In the past they were always the party of meritocracy and individualism; they had openly gay MPs when it would have been unthinkable for Labour, and were generally quite ethnically diverse. And of course a woman leader; it's unthinkable that Labour would select a woman, even now, and even with all their quotas and all-women shortlists and Blair's Babes. But the current attitude of the Conservative party seems to have reached the point where they're ok with Jews because at least they're white, and personally, I'd rather be without such 'friends'.
anti-semitism of the left
Date: 2005-05-06 09:46 pm (UTC)oh, and rysmiel isn't a big fan of democracy? cool. that means i am not alone amongst the non-nutter contingent.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-07 10:03 am (UTC)I think it's really hard to judge. My impression is that antisemitism is increasing, but there's a huge collective denial of it. A lot of it is at the level of 'I'm not racist but...' People will not admit to being antisemitic, and politically, if a public figure is accused of antisemitism, that's incredibly damaging. Someone can be called a liar, a fraud, a homophobe, or a xenophobe and manage to shrug it off, but there always seems to be desperate scurrying to deny any possibility of antisemitism. It's a bit Godwin, I'm afraid; being antisemitic is seen as somehow tantamount to supporting the Germans in WW2, which is a huge stigma.
The fact that the Respect PR people feel the need to make the point that they are merely anti-Zionist, not antisemitic, I think is indicative of this. (Other fringe political parties, such as Veritas, have no problem with admitting to being openly anti-Muslim / Islamophobic / anti-Arab, however you want to term it.)
I think this is a very important point, actually. The desire for Palestinian independence, much less criticism of the Israeli government, are not intrinsically antisemitic positions. However, there certainly are antisemitic elements who are trying to exploit people's justifiable strong feelings about these issues to build up resentment against Jews generally.
I'm automatically suspicious of anyone who draws an analogy between the illegal intervention in Iraq by the US and her allies, and the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories. The connection between those two relies on the (usually, but not always) unspoken assumption that Zionist (which I'm afraid quite often means 'Jewish') influence is responsible for capitalism, globalization, imperialism, and every incidence of exploitation of the poor by the wealthy.
I have no time at all for the LGF school of political analysis where any possible support for Palestinian human rights is automatically antisemitism. However, a good friend of my brother's was murdered in 2003 by some extremists who had infiltrated the anti-war movement. So I no longer feel I can take this lightly.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-09 10:04 pm (UTC)Ah. That's something I meet at work fairly often. Last time was when a new guy said that the polish contingent of Wallwork was better than his last place. 'I don't want to sound racist, but it's nice to work with people who aren't black', was the part I particularly enjoyed. He kind of failed in his attempt, there. From his subsequent comments it seems like he objected more to the fact that almost none of them could speak english than their skin colour, but the above comment was a bad start.
I should like to see your views on anti-semitism (and racism generally) in this country. I've been thinking of posting about it myself from time to time and it would be nice to see your thoughts. Can you give me a heads up when you post it (leave a comment in my journal or something), because if it's a work week I might well miss it otherwise. In fact I might miss it anyway, given how often I've been checking LJ recently.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-06-02 12:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-05-07 11:26 am (UTC)Well, I'm not sure; we've not got round to having that discussion yet.
I don't think you have to be a nutter to see the flaws in democracy as a political system. I am in favour of democracy, but only on balance, not as an absolute thing.
Galloway and Antisemitism
Date: 2006-01-31 11:23 pm (UTC)I am currently a member of Respect. As far as Galloway is concerned, I have hitherto regarded him as a decidedly unpleasant character personally (which I have heard from a number of people in a position to know directly), but an extremely effective campaigner politically, generally for causes I support - anti-war, anti-neoliberalism etc. I could pick up on the Saddam stuff and the "treason" question, but that's not really what I'm concerned about here.
What I am concerned about is the Anti-semitism. Galloway is not the sum of Respect, and he is not even the "leader", but if he is truly an Anti-semite, then I do not want to be part of a party of which he is a leading figure. If I am convinced of that, then I will certainly tear up my membership card, and be sure to tell those I know in the party locally exactly why.
I have seen accusations of anti-Semitism levelled at Galloway (and more generally respect) before, but on investigation have found them to be without substance, and heavily reliant on the equation of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism, and equation which I (and I see you) reject. What you have to say here seems to have more substance. But I would like more details about what exactly happened and about the sources of your information. The 'net has not been very helpful in confirming these things.
The basis of your claim that Galloway is anti-Semitic seems to rest on two main issues while he was a councillor in Dundee: the Nablus twinning, and the closure of the Synagogue.
You state that the Nablus twinning (which I regard as very much a good thing in principle) was carried out in a way that was particularly insulting to the Jewish community. Can you elaborate on this? What was said and done that made it unnecessarily insulting? Are there any documentary records as far as you know? What is your source for this? I am somewhat sceptical on this one as I know there are those (Jewish and non-Jewish) who would regard something like the twinning as anti-Semitic and an insult to the Jewish community however it was carried out. Are you confident that there is more to this allegation than that?
Regarding the synagogue. I did a little bit of research (web-based and actual real book-based) while I was last in Dundee, and was able to establish that the Synagogue in question was in Meadow Street. It had been open since 1920. (So not 100 years old - there was a previous Synagogue in the Murrygate from 1874). The current Synagogue opened in 1978. When exactly the Meadow Street one closed I couldn't find, but Meadow Street no longer exists, being part of the Wellgate shopping centre, which opened in 1977. This fits with what you said, and with the timing.
Now, what seems rather curious to me is that you suggest that this actually started as a campaign by Galloway to close down the Synagogue, and that the shopping centre arose as part of a compromise. This seems, a priori, a tad unlikely - the Wellgate is a large object, and would have required the demolition of a lot more than the Synagogue. Are you sure that this was the sequence, first a campaign specifically to close the Synagogue, then the Wellgate as part of a compromise? Or might it be the case that there was a decision to build the Wellgate, and that one of the buildings affected was the Synagogue, and the compromise involved the compensation and new Synagogue? Again, what are your sources for this information, and do you know of any documentary material that would back this up?
Overlength - tbc...
Re: Galloway and Antisemitism
Date: 2006-02-05 04:43 pm (UTC)Maybe one thing to do is ask them? I think the email address I set up for the community is still active:
admin@dundeehebrewcongregation.port5.com, so you could try writing to them and say you're doing some research into the history of interactions between the political left and the Jewish community. I know people in Dundee have been helpful with similar enquiries in the past.One thing I should clarify is that I think there's a bit of conflation of the community with the physical synagogue building here. I wasn't terribly clear about that myself, but anyway. Demolishing the old synagogue building was not Galloway's idea or anything to do with antisemitism; it was a purely economic issue, that the building was on prime commercial land and they wanted to build the Wellgate there. However, AIUI a faction within the council led by Galloway tried to deprive the Jewish community of compensation when their old synagogue was pulled down to make way for the Wellgate. I don't know the exact words that were said but people talk about an atmosphere where they didn't want Jews in Dundee anyway, let alone spending public money to help them when they'd only donate it to Israel anyway, that kind of thing.
Re: Galloway and Antisemitism
Date: 2006-02-06 02:02 am (UTC)Thing is, I can easily imagine a situation where there's a big gap between people's perceptions and what's actually being done, and where the resulting atmosphere doesn't necessarily represent the intentions of the protagonists. Still, it suggests at the very least that the matter was handled incredibly badly and without any consideration for the sensibilities of the Jewish community. And if they really were trying to deny them compensation, then that is disgusting and yes, anti-Semitic, and the "They'd only donate it to Israel" excuse is, well I don't need to tell you how pathetic it is. Mm. I should check this out, if it is not wholly lost in the midsts of time.
As to why people voted Respect - specifically in BG&B I presume you're talking about - I don't know. I hope that it was overwhelmingly Muslim anger at the war, which Oona King supported, rather than any anti-Semitic sentiment. Oona King was, after all, just as Jewish when she was elected with a huge majority in 2001.
Some Muslims (like some Christians and some non-religious folks) are undoubtedly anti-Semitic. I've experienced this directly - one Yemeni guy in a homeless residence I worked for a year told me he "smelt me out as a Jew" from the first day I was there, and was inclined to hold me and all Jews personally to blame for the actions of the Israeli state. And there were some anti-Semitic acts taking place in BG&B during the election campaign, though there's no evidence the culprits were associated with Respect. But when there's this sort of acrimonious campaign on, with OK being attacked heavily for her stance on the war, and when she happens to be Jewish, and when for a lot of Muslims the occupations of Iraq and Palestine are very much linked, that probably did give anti-Semitic elements an opportunity to play on those links and drum up hatred.
How much that was a factor for voters, I have no idea. I am quite sure that, whatever Galloway's attitude might be, that is not something that the vast majority of Respect activists would remotely want. The people I know in Respect loathe racism in all its forms. But it's entirely understandable for someone on the receiving end of this to be extremely suspicious of Respect as a whole, even if this was, as I firmly believe, an unintended consequence. There's a problem of "asymmetric information" here - people in Respect may know that they are not anti-Semitic, but people outside cannot be sure of that. The campaign in BG&B could probably have done more to counter this impression, but then they weren't exactly getting a fair crack of the whip in the media, so messages were not necessarily getting through on a national level.
part II
Date: 2006-02-05 04:49 pm (UTC)I would really like to believe that most people who voted for Respect are people like you, who have put serious thought into the allegations against Galloway and decided that mainly, he's catching flak for his criticism of Israel and he isn't really antisemitic. This seems unlikely, though. The next best scenario is that most of the electorate simply aren't aware of the issue. I'm scared that people voted for him believing him to be antisemitic and didn't care, or even worse, saw this as a positive element.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-01-31 11:23 pm (UTC)If Galloway really did specifically campaign to close down a Synagogue, then that would clearly betoken anti-Semitism - a specific hostility towards Jews/Judaism. If the second is true, it certainly suggests crass insensitivity, and possibly a dose of municipal corruption (this is Dundee after all), but not necessarily anti-Semitism. Dundee has generally been pretty cavalier about knocking down stuff, which is why there aren't many really old buildings in Dundee.
You also say in relation to this that the campaign was very acrimonious and that it involved derogatory remarks about "Jews in general and members of the community". Now I can very easily believe that Galloway would conduct such an argument in a highly acrimonious manner and be derogatory about anyone opposing him, Jew or not. But do you have information that Galloway himself made derogatory remarks about Jews in general? Again, what is your source, and is there any independent way of confirming this?
I am not looking for legal proof here, and I trust your reliability as a witness completely. But I do want to know more about your sources of information, and how confident you are of the specifics that would demonstrate Galloway as anti-Semitic. Also, I am sure that a number of my friends in Bristol Respect would be concerned to know this, and I would like something more solid than "someone I know said that someone they know said".
Sorry to put you on the spot, but as I say I've not been able to find anything on the internet, so you're my only source for this!