Countdown meme: day 7

[liv]

Yeah, I know it's been over a month since I started this meme, but I've been blocked on day 7 for a while; I keep composing the list, and then deleting it because it's surely far too navel-gazing even for a blog meme! Anyway, feel entirely free to skip this if you don't care or find this kind of information embarrassing. But hereunder find Four turn-offs:

1. Uncontrolled pain. I mean, even really minor stuff like chatting in bed and the conversation turning to that time an acquaintance broke their arm make it very hard for me to maintain the mood. Also means I react very badly to accidental poking or lying on hair or elbows in unfortunate places, whether I'm the perpetrator or the victim; I wish I didn't, because I'd much rather be a supportive partner and make light of such things, and I know perfectly well that sooner or later it's fairly inevitable that some kind of minor trivial injury will occur, but it does put me off, unfortunately.
2. Regarding sex as dirty or naughty. I definitely appreciate the thrill of the illicit, but I seek that in other ways than defining consensual, mutually agreeable sex as in some way morally negative.
3. Using "bad words" for sex, body parts or sexuality. I think this is related to the previous point; in a similar way it puts me into the headspace of thinking that sex is potentially harmful.
4. Any suggestion that the partners don't like or respect eachother. This applies mainly in portrayals of sex; I've never personally been involved sexually with someone I don't like. But I don't even like it when partners jokingly insult or tease me.

The thing about this list is that it caused me to have a very strongly negative reaction against a set of common tropes about BDSM sex, the sort of thing where the top talks about punishing the bottom for being a dirty slut. I want to emphasize that I'm talking purely about personal taste here, it's not a moral principle that these things have no place in sex! But anyway, because of that I defined myself for years as completely and entirely vanilla. Reading more widely led me to realize that clichés about kink are even less realistic than clichés about vanilla sex, and in fact I can sometimes be interested in exploring stuff related to control and power, and restraint (in several senses of the word), and even some stuff to do with pain or intense sensation in certain circumstances. I suspect the conclusion is that vanilla people might think I was kinky, but actually kinky people would think I was pretty pathetic, especially with my limits around lots of pretty un-extreme stuff!

Comments

[monanotlisa]

I suspect the conclusion is that vanilla people might think I was kinky, but actually kinky people would think I was pretty pathetic, especially with my limits around lots of pretty un-extreme stuff!

Made me smile. I hear you, though; I have pretty strong negative responses to certain elements of clichéd kink, for lack of a better term, while people would not consider me particularly vanilla in my leanings.

Food for thought; thanks for sharing. :)

[liv]

Hey, nice to know I'm making some amount of sense here!

[ajollypyruvate]

"but actually kinky people would think I was pretty pathetic, especially with my limits around lots of pretty un-extreme stuff!"
I suppose that depends on your definition of "actually kinky". There are aspects of BDSM, and its related culture, which I very much enjoy, aspects that elicit a "meh", and aspects that I find outright repugnant. By the standards of some, I'm hopelessly inhibited (a word I prefer over "vanilla" because vanilla is so tasty and delicious.)

Anyway, by my kinky standards you're not pathetic. Knowing your boundaries and communicating them to others is never pathetic. Pathetic would be recognising that something makes you uncomfortable and negatively affects your enjoyment but not saying anything to your partner(s) because you don't want to appear to be "vanilla".

[kaberett]

Yes!

Only less "pathetic" and more "worryingly unhealthy, and what can I do to help?"

[liv]

I'm sorry, I can't quite understand what you're agreeing with here. It sounds to me as if you're saying that it's worryingly unhealthy for me to like some sexually charged stuff around power and control and intense sensation, while disliking many kinds of pain and (even playful) disrespect in a sexual context? I trust you to express concern sincerely, and not as a deniable way of snarking at me. So if that is what you're saying, would you mind expanding further (by email if you'd rather not in public)?

[wildeabandon]

Obviously I'm not kabarett, and can't speak for them, but I read their comment as being in response to the final sentence of the preceding one, and thus a behaviour that you don't exhibit.

[kaberett]

S is correct - sorry for lack of clarity. I was agreeing strongly with "Anyway, by my kinky standards you're not pathetic. Knowing your boundaries and communicating them to others is never pathetic."

I was referring to "Pathetic would be recognising that something makes you uncomfortable and negatively affects your enjoyment but not saying anything to your partner(s) because you don't want to appear to be "vanilla""[1] as worrying and unhealthy, which from your description is not at all what is going on.

[1] I did not think nesting the quotation marks through. Sorry.

[liv]

I agree to an extent, but also there is a lifestyle BDSM community, which is its own distinct subculture. They've made some really important contributions to the way that liberal and Queer thinkers approach sex, and also suffered quite a lot of social disapproval and worse (there is still an amount of legal discrimination against BDSM practices, for example). I would count it as pathetic, or at least appropriative, for someone to claim to be part of that subculture just because, I dunno, they sometimes like being handcuffed in bed.

My understanding is that the point of the word "vanilla" is that it's not meant to be negative. Vanilla is definitely tasty and delicious, and preferring vanilla to more intense flavours isn't about being inhibited, it's just a different taste. But yes, good point that it's ok not to enjoy all possible permutations of sex, and that it's wise to communicate my negative tastes as well as the positive ones.

[ajollypyruvate]

There are several, actually, and they range from Goreans to people who just really like bondage. I met E. through a message board dedicated to pretty much the full spectrum of BDSM devotees and many of them are quite nice, some are in it for the edginess of it all, and quite a few of them are flagrant hypocrites, abusers, and One True Way-ers.

Actually, "vanilla" has quite frequently been used in a derogatory manner; intended as an insult to anyone who isn't kinky enough.

I had to be very clear with E. about what types of interaction (conversations, music, etc.) I could tolerate during a flogging session and which I couldn't. It took some difficult conversations (and mild drama) to work those out. But it really is important that your partner(s) know, otherwise you might inadvertently put them in the position of acting without full consent. And, for me, sex without consent is always wrong (if not outright criminal). It is not always easy to have those conversations in the middle of all the fun, as it can quickly ruin the nice mood one has built. Still, that's better than having an unpleasant conversation in which you tell someone, "Remember that great time you thought we both had? Yeah, about that...".

I know there are those who dislike the long conversations and the planning (or, "scripting", as some would say) and the occasional hesitancy but once you are past the initial awkwardness of establishing consent and limits, you are generally free to be pretty well spontaneous.

And that's awesome. :)

[ptc24]

I suspect kink is not evenly distributed throughout the kinky population, such that the average bit of kink (median average, ranked by the kinkiness of the person/people involved) is said or done by someone who's decidedly kinkier than the median average kinky person.

I suspect your position may be a lot less rare than you think.

[liv]

I like that way of looking at the "distribution" of kinkiness! I think it's pretty much always the rule with sexual tastes that you're never the only one, but also nothing's ever universal. So yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised if lots of other people like some aspects of kink without being deeply committed to a kinky identity.