How to be a girl

[liv]

The wonderful hadassah has generously offered to accompany me on a fact-finding mission to look for potential wedding dresses. Bear in mind that I want a bright-coloured party dress that I can wear for other occasions, not a traditional wedding dress or anything white. However I'm basically terrified of clothes shopping, and although hadassah is very good at it, she is also a foreigner and doesn't really know where the best places are.

So for UK based people, my question is where in London would be a good place to look? I'm looking for any recs at all, department stores, boutiques, little off-the-beaten-track indie or even vintage shops that stand out above the rest... If I have a day in London, where should be my top priority?

For everyone, do you have any advice about how to go about shopping for a serious dress? I'm basically intending to spend a few hundred pounds for something off-the-peg but nice, and then spend perhaps as much again getting it altered to fit me perfectly, and buying accessories including high-end underwear. I would really prefer something made out of natural materials and ethically manufactured if at all possible, but I think the former is easier to find out than the latter. Do you know of any designers / brands who are known to pay a decent wage for the people who manufacture their clothes?

Also my plan is to avoid mentioning the W-word, because I don't want to be charged a premium and I don't want to be steered towards stuff that looks wedding-y. I think I'll say "I'm going to reach the third of a century mark next year, and I'm planning a big party", both of which are true but aren't as connected as that would imply.

Comments

[403]

I went to a dressmaker. It was *so* much less hassle.

[liv]

The idea that getting something made for me is less hassle than shopping is a bit scary! I can hardly even imagine myself being the sort of person who does that. But I may make a post about how to go about commissioning a dressmaker if this shopping expedition doesn't work out well.

[angelofthenorth]

I have an amazing dressmaker who charges £45 + fabric for a bespoke dress. This would also be an excuse for you to come to Cardiff a couple of times.... ;)

[kerrypolka]

Debenhams and House of Fraser have perfectly pretty dresses IMO, but I'm not sure about their eco credentials. :(

[liv]

Thank you. I'm not thinking about eco stuff so much; my priority is not so much pristine farming practices as decent labour conditions. But the same problem still applies, of course.

[blue_mai]

If you're willing to spend a few hundred pounds, it might be worth making enquiries of smaller designers for a custom dress? Ethical manufacture shouldn't be that hard in london - the smaller designers make their own clothes, so if you're paying them enough, I guess it's ethical! But that does involve quite a bit of trawling. There are areas in the westend and eastend, probably elsewhere, and markets. I'll have a think.

I haven't had any contact with her, but for some reason I started following http://www.thedressdoctor.co.uk/ on facebook (you may recognise her, I think she was the year above us at school, or if you don't, then maybe the year above me) and I like the sound of what she does, bespoke customisation. Maybe worth getting in touch.

Are you planning on spending just one day dress-shopping at the end of which you have a dress, or is this a speculative/reconnaissance trip? Would you prefer a new dress (ie. new fabric) or re-used dress/fabric? Do you have a favourite material/style/colour? (I'm thinking warm orange through to burgundy, maybe plum/purple, and heavyweight silk/velvet? That is just based on previous things you've liked).

Actually, while I'm finding the idea of your wedding dress quite exciting, I have no more than a passing interest in clothes... I just like crafted things. You might enquire of http://absinthecity.livejournal.com/ she knows a lot about ethical clothes in London.

[blue_mai]

Had another idea - not so much a favourite colour, but is there one which for you just really represents something about the day? Like in chinese celebrations are always dressed in red. It doesn't have to be so traditional as that, could be something personal.

Thank you, this is super-helpful!

[liv]

Is custom-made a plausible plan in this sort of budget range? I'd vaguely looked into custom dresses and not found much for under £2500, and thought, well, that's reasonable for the amount of labour that goes in, and the cost of decent quality materials, but in the absolute it's probably more than I want to spend. (Apart from those somewhat dubious websites where you tell them your measurements and they make something to order and ship it from India or China or somewhere, but I don't really count that as custom-made.) But maybe I can get away with less by not mentioning the wedding thing.

I definitely like the idea of a small designer who makes their own clothes! If you have any suggestions at all I'd be very glad to hear them. I totally love that Dress Doctor website, thank you for that; she has links to loads of really good resources (eg directories of ethical stuff) and I love the idea of the service she's providing. Thanks also for recommending absinthecity; this sort of post is very much about trying to discover links to people who know stuff.

I think this is going to be a reconnaissance trip. If I'm impatient I will just buy any old thing so that I don't have to think about shopping any more, which will defeat the object of getting something once-in-a-lifetime nice. And I am still deciding whether I should in fact buy something off-the-peg at all. My plan is to take lots of notes and snaps, so that I come away with an idea of which designers, styles etc I like, and possibly have material I could use to commission something custom. That was a really useful question to ask, though!

I don't have strong preferences for new versus used; both have advantages and disadvantages. I like warm colours as colours, but my actual complexion suits the blue end of the spectrum much better than the yellow end. Orange is very dangerous for me, even though I do have that lovely orange silk outfit that I found in Sweden. I can do red if it has at least a tinge of blue, (or black with pure red accents, but that's not very wedding suitable!) So my plan is cool but intense colours, deep purpley reds or blues. Or even purple, which is my favourite colour anyway and luckily I can wear it. Material I don't know, I love velvet aesthetically but I'm not sure it will work well for the kind of clothes I want, especially not with a May wedding. I'm thinking maybe a silk (or even linen) dress with a velvet jacket, maybe?

Style is difficult, mainly because I just don't have the vocabulary for it. I think the thing I like most may be called "sweetheart". Think classic Laura Ashley? Basically a fitted bodice with a distinct, shaped neckline, low-cut but not completely exposing my breasts, clearly marked waist, I think V-shaped, and wide skirt flaring outwards at my hips, full-length. This is the sort of thing I'm trying to get more ideas about via this shopping trip, but I have a bad feeling that what I want is so ridiculously out of fashion at the moment that I am not going to see anything I like.

[blue_mai]

Is custom-made a plausible plan in this sort of budget range?
I realise my opening question wasn't very helpful! I meant that for a bit more you could get something custom - £2500 is a lot of dress. But actually, I'm speculating. I don't know. All I have to base it on is going wedding dress shopping with my sister. There are things inbetween though - as well as the off-the-shelf/vintage + customisation option, there are small designers who do only a few designs who would do a customised version for you - but this would neccesitate you liking their designs in the first place. I haven't really been into clothes much the last few years and things have moved on - I just tried to find a shop I like of the type I mean, that used to be in Kingly Court, but the internet tells me it's not there anymore. I'll have to find an old box and get the name, I hope they haven't closed. I was planning on taking a friend there in a couple of weeks...

Just googling (I know, you can do this just as well but forgive my enthusiasm), Hilary Jane in Manchester says made-to-measure wedding dress around £1k. Evening/prom wear considerably less. If you want it to look weddingy, there's no reason to describe it as such is there? Also Carmen's Tailoring in Covent Garden has good online reviews for alterations, they say they do made-to-measure as well.

The sweetheart design you describe isn't far off fashionable, but you may be best off looking in vintage shops for 1980's Laura Ashley or similar. I say not far off because the 1950's American thing is still going strong. (Are either of these the kind of thing?)

Reconnaissance trip is good, I think. If I were you this is what I would do (in no particular order):
- Look online to find stuff you really like the style of (mmm and lots here)
- Sound out the Dress Doctor, Carmen's Tailoring and similar: good personal relationship is pretty crucial!
- Browse charity and vintage shops, consider buying a dress if it is the right style+fit but wrong fabric (and fairly cheap): it can save time/money if you want it remade instead of designed from scratch (must be some near you, also Burleigh St and Sally Ann in Cambridge often have ballgowns. In London - Oxfam, Pop Boutique and Rokit in covent garden, Bang Bang on Goodge St)
- There are smaller designers and boutiques around Carnaby St (not on it - try Kingly Court, Beak St, Foubert Pl and the little streets just east of it), but I'm really out of touch with that.
- Wander down Berwick Street looking in the fabric shops (mostly not open Sundays).
- Since it seems the centre of retro fashion gravity has moved east, it's probably worth spending some time around Shoreditch/Brick Lane/Bethnal Green. Vintage shops include Rokit, Vintage Heaven, not been to Paper Dress or The Shop they maybe wrong style. Spitalfields Sunday Market has lots of smaller designers manning their own stalls (but I haven't been for years). Permanent shops around it including Fairy Gothmother which looks maybe amazing.

phew. I'm still excited for you - can you tell?

[liv]

Gosh, you are great, thank you so much for all this useful information. And I'm really pleased you're excited for me, because I worry I'm going on about wedding plans too much. And the dress especially, I just have so little idea where to start that my mind keeps going back to the problem.

In between options is a really good idea. I don't think the thing I want is so completely unheard of that I have to have it specially made, but having something that is made precisely to fit my body rather than being approximately the right size will make me look a lot better.

Although you say I can Google just as well, I have been trying and haven't come up with anything as nice as the links in this post. I'm mad on Love Miss Daisy; I didn't quite like the dress you picked out, it's too floral for me, but I really liked this one, and I bookmarked it to show you what I meant, and after a day or so I decided I just wanted to buy it anyway, on the basis that it's nice enough to be worth £40 even if I don't end up getting married in it. It arrived this morning, and it's a lot brighter green in person than it looked in their pictures. It's not perfect because it's just slightly too long for me so it wrinkles in awkward places, but it's still a lovely lovely dress, yay.

And seriously, I can't thank you enough for the suggestions of vintage shops. The only one I already knew about was Fairy Gothmother; I think I'm going to have to check that out at some point in my shopping. The problem is that like a lot of goth designers she regards sixe 14-16 as XL, which means she has very little in my size (16-18). Still, some of those outfits are gorgeous, I can't deny it.

[blue_mai]

The only one I already knew about was Fairy Gothmother; ... The problem is that like a lot of goth designers she regards sixe 14-16 as XL, which means she has very little in my size (16-18).

Given the styles, I'm surprised by that. Seems a bit foolish to specialise in designs that look best on bigger/curvier women and then not make big sizes...

But regardless, one of the points about going to a shop like that is so you can get the name of the designs and designers you like, then approach them - either through the shop or independently - and see whether they would work with you on something special...

Re: Thank you, this is super-helpful!

[mongoose]

I'm pretty sure you can get a pattern for something like that, and then get the dressmaker to make it up for you if you're not confident yourself. Try Vogue Patterns. The dressmaker will also be able to make any alterations to the pattern you want, so if you can't find your exact requirement, just get a plain fitted dress pattern and tell them you'd like it with the details you've just specified. I mean, I could do it myself, but I'm afraid I can't volunteer because I can't do fittings on you from this distance, otherwise I would do so with great pleasure.

[katieastrophe]

Viven of Holloway seems like an obvious choice, if you like that kind of style at all.

[liv]

Thank you! A few people have pointed me to that before, and I think it's a marvellous concept! The thing about 50s dresses is that they definitely meet the criterion of suiting hourglassy figures, but I'm not so keen on floral prints, halternecks or knee-length skirts.

While you're giving me excellent advice, can I talk to you about corsets some time?

[katieastrophe]

Absolutely!

Hmm, yes, do have non-floral non-halterneck dresses (see also Bombshell and Tea-Dress) but longer than knee-length is difficult. They do custom designs though; perhaps you could talk to them about a little extra length?

[katieastrophe]

Oh, also - http://www.styleshake.com/

[liv]

Eeeee that website is so cool! What a fantastic concept, thank you so much for pointing me to that. Most of the combos I was able to come up with seem more bridesmaid-y than being serious party dresses in their own right, but I shall definitely bear in mind that if I can't find something with the right neckline for under £100, Style Shake should be the fallback rather than going for something that I don't feel comfortable about.

[atreic]

My dress when I was a bridesmaid came from Styleshake, there were pros and cons. If you get serious about the idea, I'm happy to go into more detail. It was a very nice dress though!

[ajnabieh]

Don't know if these are to your taste, but here are the UK & Ireland vendors for Offbeat Bride. Good luck! It's a process...

[liv]

Thanks, that's useful to know. It looks as if they don't really have much this side of the pond, but I've bookmarked the site as a source of ideas which are not terrifyingly princessy.

[nanaya]

There are quite a lot of options. I think it depends on what style you're going for. I'd be tempted to use a dressmaker myself, then you can get something perfectly fitting which is *just* what you want. Why not start by collecting pictures of clothes you like, so you can get a clearer idea of what you want? That could help with things like colour, cut, etc.

Bit busy atm but would be very happy to discuss this further at some point in the near future if you like. Chat?

way too many parentheses, sorry

[liv]

Yes please, I would love to come and chat with you about clothes (and ceremonies and ethical shopping and anyway just spend time with you and chat!) I like the idea of having a dress made, but I'm just not sure how much is sensible to spend. If I can get a dress which is 90% perfect for £300, I am not sure I am willing to spend £3000 for something 100% perfect. (I already have something which I like very much but isn't perfect, which cost me £30, so that's the baseline I have to beat!) But part of the point of this shopping trip is to improve my ideas of what sort of thing I want, just seeing what's available (the first stage of that was browsing eBay, where I found the lovely but not perfect dress; now I want to see stuff in person).