You might find it useful to know about me:

[liv]

I'm just about the most extroverted person I know, certainly one of the most extroverted. I have an unlimited desire and nearly an unlimited capacity for human interaction, and I have the trait which is typical but not universal for extroverts, that I pretty much always want to be talking about anything and everything. I have a job that most days involves a lot of interacting with people, and I come home wanting more contact so I use the internet to facilitate more conversations.

Considering I am more extroverted than nearly everyone else, I am well used to the idea that not everybody feels the same as me! I have set up my life so that I hopefully don't get too clingy with any one person, and if someone needs a break from my company and incessant chattering, I can go and find someone else to talk to. But I'm not always very good at intuiting when a more introverted person would like me to shut up and go away. The internet is helpful because it doesn't enforce my company on people, everyone can choose to respond to my posts and comments or not. But it's unhelpful in that it doesn't always give me cues or hints that I need to be giving someone a bit more space. So I would very much appreciate it if you could tell me if I'm getting wearing or even annoying. I do try to work it out on my own, but I don't always succeed; I won't be offended if you remind me.

While I'm on the subject (and yes, I do talk about myself a lot; I talk about other stuff too, but me-me-me is an area where I don't run out of things to say!): I come from the intersection of several cultures where you show respect by arguing with people. As a result of these character traits, if I like someone or think they're nifty, I am likely to want to talk to them all the time, hang out with them as often as possible, find out lots of stuff about them and so on. And if they say something interesting, my immediate response is usually to pick holes, to look for edge cases and couterexamples.

I'm also very confident; I have quite a lot of the sense often described as "male privilege", that by default I expect people to find what I have to say interesting and relevant. (This is part of the reason I don't fit very well in women's spaces, particularly not feminist safe spaces or consciousness-raising type set-ups.) This can mean that I unintentionally bulldoze and overwhelm people. But on the positive side, I'm really really thick-skinned, so you can tell me I'm being irritating or confrontational or overly pushy and I won't take it as a blow to my self-esteem, just a helpful pointer that will allow me to modify my behaviour around you. 'Shut up and let me get a word in edgewise' is always acceptable, as is 'shut up and let me think' or 'leave me alone, I've run out of energy for interacting any further'.

I should also add that because I largely tend to seek out friends similar to myself, or at least people who have a degree of tolerance for a personality like mine, hanging around with my crowd either virtually or in person can be a bit overwhelming for introverts and shy people. And particularly on this blog, I encourage divergent opinions and debate, though I appreciate that not everybody finds that fun, especially when the topic has painful emotional significance.

So yes, I am aware of this, and I am aware that it can be a problem sometimes. My apologies if I ever do impose too much on your time and energy, or if I seem to be shooting you down through inappropriate expressions of enthusiasm.

Comments

[brainwane]

I come from the intersection of several cultures where you show respect by arguing with people.

What are those?

[liv]

My birth family; a very academically competitive education at both school and university (English girls' private school, then Oxford university); professional academia; geekdom, particularly the early days of blogging and pre-social network online cultures; Judaism, or at least some subcultures within that. Good question, thank you for asking!

[brainwane]

I'm trying to figure out how to communicate "no seriously that's disrespectful" to people who are ensconced in those cultures.

And of course part of the problem is that simply trying to communicate "I am worthy of respect" is itself a low-status move.

[liv]

I am not sure how best to reply to you, here. Given you've indicated that you would find it disrespectful if I were to say anything that could be interpreted as criticizing or opposing your comment, I want to avoid doing that. I hope I am open to people asking me to be less confrontational / argumentative / critical, but I acknowledge that even having to ask places a burden on the people I interact with. Is that helpful at all?

[brainwane]

I am asking for a description of how one could communicate to the people in the cultures that you've listed that they are being disrespectful in some way, especially when their argumentative styles are being disrespectful. This isn't just about you, it's about Oxbridge people, academics, etc. A related question: if you show respect by arguing with people, how do you show disrespect? Just checking out of the discussion entirely? Where does agreement factor into it? Like, what if you actually just agree with someone?

[liv]

OK, thanks for clarifying, now I think I see what you're asking. I think as well as being argumentative, I tend to be quite direct, so my personal preference would be for someone to tell me "look, I feel really hurt and disrespected when you shoot down everything I say, please could you stop doing that?" I think this may fail to answer your concern that asking for respect is, as you put it, a low-status move. I hope I would notice after a few rounds of the person, say, not responding to my arguments and criticisms, or changing the subject, but I am really quite bad at reading subtle social cues. I think that issue is more me than academics in general, though.

How do I show disrespect? On the whole I try not to, I try to treat everyone I meet with respect. Sometimes it's simply not bothering to interact with them. Sometimes it's saying something very bland that doesn't really engage with what they're saying. Yeah, I can see why you'd think that. That's cool. Yeah, ok. That's nice. Thanks for telling me. Occasionally I am sarcastic, I do admit, though I'm not proud of that tendency.

If I actually agree with someone, hm. My first instinct is to respond with something like, "hey, that's a really great idea, but what if...?" I try to express my enthusiasm and agreement directly, as well as the nitpicking, but I know that lots of people won't really hear that and will only focus on the criticism. I rarely "just" agree, I always want to explore the scope of what I'm agreeing with, or consider the implications of accepting the new idea.

[brainwane]

Your strategies sound counterproductive to useful discourse for me, so I'll be unfollowing you.

[liv]

Thank you for taking the time to explain your perspective to me. You didn't have to do that, considering that you find my style of communication unhelpful, so I do appreciate that you were willing to enter into the discussion.

Apologies

[brainwane]

I'm sorry -- I misworded my phrasing there badly. I meant to say that I would have a hard time listening & communicating productively when interacting with your strategies.

Re: Apologies

[brainwane]

I'm a bit better at dealing with this sort of thing now, by the way.

Re: Apologies

[liv]

Wow, it's really nice of you to come back and apologize for an awkwardly phrased comment a long time ago! Thank you, it means a lot that you made the effort. I admire you and your writing and your thoughtfulness, and have done for a long time.