Talking about Jewish topics

[liv]

I am completely overwhelmed by all the responses to my brainweasels posts! You people are just incredible. Partly the specific helpful and supportive things people said. But massively the sheer volume of comments from lurkers, from people I've been admiring from afar for ages, people I don't know at all. The fact that so many of you bothered to comment to tell me I should keep posting is incredibly heartening.

Among a range of thoughts sparked by the discussion, I've been thinking about the etiquette around posting Jewish-related stuff. Quite a lot of my life is to do with Jewish-community related activities. Indeed, a few years back I met someone I'd only really interacted with online, and they assumed I was some kind of religious professional, based on reading my DW!

I could make an argument that Jews are an oppressed minority in Christian-dominated society, and therefore I should take pride in posting about Jewish stuff as much as possible to balance the ways Jews might otherwise be silenced and erased. Or I could talk about some of my experiences where people would really rather I'm quieter about being Jewish, that I don't mention my identity or at least if I must mention it, I shouldn't get in people's faces by actually acting differently from my non-Jewish circles. Or I could talk about how it's not fair to have to educate the privileged majority about my minority culture, so I should just babble about whatever comes into my head and if people can't follow, that's their problem. I have experienced being treated as an endless free resource for people to spill their random thoughts and feelings about Judaism at, though for the most part I quite enjoy being the explainer-of-Judaism.

But equally I could make an argument that Jews are privileged monotheists, and by talking about religion-related topics too much, I'm contributing to the oppression of atheists, polytheistic pagans, and anyone who doesn't come from a Christian-influenced European culture. And I very much have experienced the thing of people constantly going on at me about their religion in ways that are clearly a power-play and make me very uncomfortable.

This is the kind of situation where I find the privilege / oppression framework just... not very useful. For me, a more useful paradigm is that of consent. If I make sure all my posts on religious themes are clearly labelled and behind cuts, then people can choose whether they want to read them. Jews, being Abrahamic monotheists who are somewhat acceptable to at least some Christians, may have social power over non-monotheists in a broad sociological sense, but I personally don't have any meaningful power over any of my readers. So if I offer you an opt-out from my religion posts, you're (hopefully) not under any pressure to read them.

This isn't perfect, because there are some people who find themselves compelled to click on cuts that are going to lead them to material they may find traumatizing. A lot of people use opt-in filters for triggering topics to avoid the problem. I'm kind of reluctant to do that, partly because I really like blogging almost entirely in public and having 50 people comment on random angst posts, and don't want to be keeping track of a lot of access filters. And partly because Judaism is my life, it's not a compartmentalized thing for special religious occasions. If I'm talking about my family, my ethics, my general experience of being in the world, I'm talking as a Jew. And of course, that can be an excuse, I've heard the pushiest of missionaries justifying their rudeness by saying they just can't help Witnessing at me. But I think realistically, it's not fair to have to hide away any mention of my religion and culture and identity in my own space.

Which is not to deny that religious trauma can be real. There are plenty of people, especially anyone who doesn't have a completely default sexuality and gender identity, who have been exceptionally badly treated by religious people and religious organizations. Some of them are ancestrally Jewish, and all have just as much right to avoid reading about religion as I have to express myself by talking about it.

I have a rotten cold and I am not sure I'm making sense, but anyway, this is something that's been on my mind based on recent discussions.

Comments

[angelofthenorth]

I think that there's a difference between bearing witness to who you are and Witnessing and you draw that distinction well.

I struggle with what to do with Faith and posting, for similar intersectional reasons - and usually just make judicious use of cut tags and content tags.

(oh, and if you've got the wherewithal, I'd love to have your opinion on my last post :)

[highlyeccentric]

I think tagging/cutting on a consent basis is the right balance between the consent thing and the fact that, as you say, you shouldn't have to hide away your religion/culture in your own space.

I know I'm not The Most Religiously Traumatised person out there (and anyone who studies medieval literature by choice *definitely* has enough of a coping filter to deal with incidental religiosity amongst their friends), but... well. I have filters where I have *filtered out* most of my friends who are religious, and I post to those filters when I don't want the input of devout people on my whatever of the day. That's my choice. You - nor any other person of any religion - shouldn't have to constrain your speech on your platform for me.

I might, if someone posts a lot of uncut religious content (say... i recall back in the LJ days someone who used to post stream of consciousness prayer), ask for a cut, but honestly I think I'd be more likely to simply unfollow or to create a reading list filter. I have one twitter friend I mute every time there's a major Anglican synod in her area or global Anglican wossname, because I *do* find it very hard to not read regular updates on specific christian (esp protestant) debates about sexuality, if those updates are constantly in my feed. So I mute her every synod and come back a week later and unmute her.

[sonia]

As a US Jew who often feels the great weight of Christian hegemony, I love seeing your posts about Judaism, especially woven matter-of-factly into your life.

there are some people who find themselves compelled to click on cuts that are going to lead them to material they may find traumatizing.
I think putting material behind a cut is a great solution to give people the option to consent. I have a strong reaction that some people being compelled to self-harm is an entirely separate problem and doesn't take away from textual cuts being a workable solution.

I appreciate your concern about privilege and oppression. At the same time, the idea that simply speaking about Judaism in your own online space could cause harm, makes me sputter. It sounds similar to "children simply hearing that LGBT people exist will harm them."

Yes, many Jews are white-passing and have considerable privilege. At the same time, we are a small minority, and the more people know about *actual* Jews, as opposed to all the anti-Semitic stereotypes in common use, the better.

[worlds_of_smoke]

If someone clicks on a read-more when they know it's likely to trigger them, that is not your responsibility. You've done the best you can do to keep them safe and they chose to step into a potentially upsetting situation. Therefore, they're responsible for their reaction. -shrugs- Way I figure it, you shouldn't have to censor yourself just because some people don't know how to manage their mental illnesses since this is your space. It would be one thing if you were in a communal space or you didn't take precautions to ensure that the people who read your journal are aware of potential landmines and can take care of themselves. But you're in your own space and are taking precautions to ensure people are forewarned, so you're 100% in the clear here. <3

Anyways, I really do like reading about your thoughts on Judaism and being Jewish. <3

[seekingferret]

Heh, at this point I think I have just gone all-in on anyone who doesn't want to read about my religion is going to have to unsubscribe from my journal, particularly since my DW seems to have become a 90% daf yomi blog the last couple months.

I had a little pause about that, because roughly concurrently with my blog turning into a daf yomi blog, I was advertising myself on one of the post-tumblr fandom friending memes, and I haven't really been posting all that much fandom content since then. So perhaps people are not getting what they signed up for. But eh, it's not like my post on the fandom meme was some kind of promise, and I've tried to be clear about the parameters of my daf yomi posting project.

I do enjoy reading your posts about religion, both your thoughts on Judaism and your thoughts on Judaism's interactions with other religions.

[rosefox]

FWIW, I think I followed you from that meme and have zero regrets!

[rosefox]

Er... is this a standard you apply to anyone else, or is it just you? Like, if you read my posts or seekingferret's or anyone else's about Judaism, do you become concerned that some passing person might be distressed by our visible Jewishness, or view our posts in our own spaces as being Jewish at people in some aggressive way? Or do you just read them and appreciate them or scroll past them or argue with them or otherwise have a personal response, as you would with any other personal topic? If the latter, can you apply that standard to yourself as well, rather than getting lost down the rabbit hole of "is my existence oppressive"?

I don't think you should have to make any kind of argument about whether you get to be your whole self in your space. I think you just get to be your whole self in your space.

[felinejumper]

Came for the discussion of stomping brainweasels, stayed for the discussion of Judaism and everything else! Something I've missed from Tumblr is my really deliberate crafting of a feed that at least _partially_ brought me Officially Sanctioned Representation Of Other Groups. I much prefer the personal touch of DW so far, and it's such a genuine gift to hear about...like...people's relationships to the world, I guess, in an inclusively-experiential way. So, hi! That's my deal!

This is the kind of situation where I find the privilege / oppression framework just... not very useful. For me, a more useful paradigm is that of consent.
Also, _this_ is a thing I feel very strongly in agreement with, thanks for articulating it!

[sfred]

I have started and rephrased a comment several times - maybe when it's daytime I'll be able to say it properly, but essentially, I really appreciate the ways you write and the things you write about.

[sfred]

I don't feel any more eloquent now, but it was something about appreciating the shared experience of religion/religious practice being a whole-of-life thing rather than a thing just for particular times. I also like learning from you about specific Judaism things.

[finding_helena]

This makes complete sense.

I tend to lean towards "this is how I feel and what's important to me, I'm not trying to convince anyone unless they find my perspective convincing, and if they have a problem with it, they are free to not read it". Your posts about Judaism have been very thoughtful and interesting and I've enjoyed reading them.

[aim_of_destiny]

hi, you probably don't know me from a hole in the ground.

i'd still like to add my 2ct to the pile: what you post in your own journal, and how you present it, is 100% up to your own discretion.
you're not being aggressively religious in anyone's face - this is your living room, where you have invited select people to visit you. if they don't like it, they are welcome to leave early, or to not look at the posts they personally find disagreeable. tagging and cutting are additional courtesies that you provide to make this easy and comfortable for us, your guests in your space.

it's not like you're going out of your way to go to other people's journals, or private messages, to dump your thoughts on them.

[wychwood]

But equally I could make an argument that Jews are privileged monotheists, and by talking about religion-related topics too much, I'm contributing to the oppression of atheists, polytheistic pagans, and anyone who doesn't come from a Christian-influenced European culture.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's bullshit, in the context of you talking on your own journal about your own personal religious practice! You could say the same sort of thing about mentioning your life with jack (reinforcing heteronormativity! patriarchal marriage traditions! etc), or your job (what about people who are unhappily unemployed!), or your couch25k posts (not all disabled people can run! how could you be so insensitive!). If you were butting into conversations about minority religions and insisting on dominating them with Jewish content, then maybe. Anyone who tries to tell me that I'm not allowed to talk about my own identity has pretty definitely gone wrong already.

I actually came to this from the opposite direction - I mean, obviously Christianity is super normative in society and privileged in all sorts of ways in the culture, but a) I belong to a minority within that, as far as the UK goes, and b) in practice almost none of my friends are church-goers. Certainly as a teenager, I felt very isolated as a practicing Christian or religious person of any kind; in my circles, I was a real exception. So part of what I chose to do about that was to be quite open about going to church, being religious, etc, not to oppress anyone else, but to affirm my identity and hopefully make other religious people (and atheists, etc!) aware that not everyone in their vicinity was atheist, and that "those weird church-y people" was a group that included someone they knew, etc.

[mrissa]

I really feel that "compelled to click on cuts that lead to information they don't want" is a category of problem that, while it is real, is also substantially the individual's to deal with, with whatever help they need, rather than something that should affect what you post.

[ayebydan]

I am an atheist. I have you in my rlist who talks often about your religion and I have a Christian friend who titles every post with a saints day. I think all of that is wonderful. Being Jewish and being active in your community is important to you so of course you talk about it. And you should! This is your space! As you say, you often use tags, icons and titles that all indicate which posts are going to talk more in depth about your faith. You could not give more notice that this is what what a person will find behind a a cut, which you also use when you don't have to. You choose to as it is polite. But we all have scroll buttons.

Please keep posting as you do as long as you take joy in doing so ♥

[edrith.co.uk]

Preamble: I'm hoping this comes across really positively, in a stomping the brain weasels way. I'm very conscious that you feel some sociological concepts are (in general) really positive ones that I see (in general) as very negative, and I'm trying not to talk generally about them but to address this very specific circumstance. If I have chosen words wrongly or unhelpfully, please don't feel any hesitation in ignoring and/or deleting.

I don't think you need to be concerned that you might be doing something wrong by writing about a core part of your cultural identity, in your own personal space which no-one is forced to read. I think it's really unfortunate that you've been made to feel this way and that the people or ideologies or paradigms that try to make you worry about this have got something very badly wrong and oppressive in this instance.

This isn't about you (hypothetically) abusing your power as a manager at work to make people study Jewish texts. This just seems to be about you having a fundamental right to express and show your identity and share it with those who choose to read. And anyone who tries to shame you into feeling that that's wrong or that you shouldn't is simply acting horribly. The commenter who made the analogy with the way some people argue (wrongly) that gay people shouldn't show affection in public in case it 'upsets' people seems spot on.

You have an absolute right in every sense to write about your faith, religious and cultural practices, academic details thereof and how it plays out in your day to day life on your own blog. The fact that lots of us find it interesting is a bonus, but like the brain weasel post, it's absolutely ok if we don't.

[silveradept]

One of the things that kept coming back up in various discussions of the post-Tumblr fandom is that Dreamwidth is really rather good at making sure that you have to seek out content rather than having it thrust upon you and having to block it.

Lots of us are here because we think you have many good things to say about your life and how religion intersects with it. Cut if you like, but it's incumbent on us that we stop following you if it becomes too much for us to handle, generally.

[damerell]

I can't speak for anyone else but I generally find your writing about this quite interesting. Occasionally tl;dr, but never vexing.

I may be predisposed to enjoy reading about a religion with rules lawyering of things like exactly when you're allowed to have a light on in your fridge...

I left out the theology I wrote here.