Media for adults
Apr. 30th, 2022 09:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
livI'm starting to formulate an idea of what I look for in media (TV, films, shows) is, essentially the opposite of superhero franchises. Basically I want media that's unambiguously targeted at adults, with well-realized characters, that covers complex themes including dark and serious stuff, but that isn't primarily about showing lots of sex, violence and especially sexy violence as the main visual theme.
I don't want to harsh the squee of anyone who is really into superhero shows, and it's not that superheroes themselves are the problem. It's the ubiquity of major investment of production budget, promotion and everything else flowing towards stuff that doesn't really appeal to me. Or into media aimed at children, according to a theory of childhood that says that children's media should be morally simple and wholesome and uplifting.
So what do I want out of not-superheroes, apart from less on-screen, explicit violence and explosions and T&A? Shows that establish their own world and premise, that I can just drop into without first becoming an expert in decades of lore and mythos. New faces, not the same big-name actors who already have a huge following. And actors, whether new or established, who aren't all pretty, young and white with idealized-according-to-Hollywood bodies and faces to the point where I can barely tell them apart. I want gender and racially and regionally and internationally diverse casts, not smurfette ensembles of five white guys with personalities and 'the girl one' or 'the Black one'.
I want characters with human motivations and minor imperfections, not archetypes with a designated Tragic Flaw. I want sex to be part of human experience but not the ultimate goal or reward. I want everybody to be agents in their own sexuality (or absence of it), not objects or prizes to be pursued, or simply for the gratification of a stereotyped idea of what is assumed to be sexually valued by young adult men.
Moral complexity, definitely. Not necessarily characters having lots of onscreen angst about whether it is Right to cause harm in the name of a grand cause, and not villains who are at the extreme end of the range of human cruelty but are ineffectually portrayed as sympathetic when that's little more than a codeword for 'hot'. But something more nuanced than a grand battle between Good and Evil where if someone is defined as Good that automatically justifies behaviour that in the real world would not actually be Good.
Focus on character interactions and development. People who seem like real, multidimensionally complex people. I don't mind about the setting, it can be speculative and completely distanced from the real world. When I was a kid I gravitated towards books that have believable-to-me people in outrageous fantasy settings; my favourite example of the genre was probably Gillian Cross' The demon headmaster. The problem now as an adult, both with books and with TV, is that things that are character focused tend to also be 'literary' which often means they're about middle-class white north Americans living completely uninteresting suburban or minor academic lives. That's not a genre I inherently hate, but if it's the only way I'm going to character focused storytelling that isn't full of explosions and other flashy action sequences, I'm probably going to get bored of it.
So far I have found two shows that actually fit these not-superhero desiderata. They are both on annoying streaming services where we had to subscribe for just the one thing, but at least they exist. One is Ted Lasso S2; I was not at all interested in the premise, and I was worried it might be cringey, but it's actually a really good, definitely adult, definitely complex and interesting character piece. Like a lot of viewers I thought it went downhill from 2.9, because suddenly it's about various kinds of trauma rather than about characters repairing their lives after background trauma. In my opinion the show is just not on a solid enough foundation to deal directly with parental abuse, suicide, adultery and various kinds of violence. And it just doesn't pull off the sudden swerve from comedy with a dark edge to full-on drama.
And right now we're watching Station Eleven. It's an unlikely sort of show altogether, a mini-series about a book set in the aftermath of a devastating pandemic, that was itself made during the real-world pandemic. We have watched up to episode 6 'Survival is insufficient'; we're not exactly bingeing it because it's really dark and also requires a lot of concentration because it's all told non-linearly and full of unreliable viewpoints. What has really impressed me about it is that most of the cast look like real people. Nobody looks like a film star, most people even if they're young and fit are not particularly pretty, and there's a whole range of body types, and it actually feels credible that these people have lived through 20 years since the collapse of civilization. Definitely a show for adults, it has more than earned its 18 rating, but while it contains violence, it's not about lingering shots of people brutally attacking each other, it's about the people who live in a world which, like this one, sometimes contains extreme violence, but contains other elements of human experience too.
I don't want to harsh the squee of anyone who is really into superhero shows, and it's not that superheroes themselves are the problem. It's the ubiquity of major investment of production budget, promotion and everything else flowing towards stuff that doesn't really appeal to me. Or into media aimed at children, according to a theory of childhood that says that children's media should be morally simple and wholesome and uplifting.
So what do I want out of not-superheroes, apart from less on-screen, explicit violence and explosions and T&A? Shows that establish their own world and premise, that I can just drop into without first becoming an expert in decades of lore and mythos. New faces, not the same big-name actors who already have a huge following. And actors, whether new or established, who aren't all pretty, young and white with idealized-according-to-Hollywood bodies and faces to the point where I can barely tell them apart. I want gender and racially and regionally and internationally diverse casts, not smurfette ensembles of five white guys with personalities and 'the girl one' or 'the Black one'.
I want characters with human motivations and minor imperfections, not archetypes with a designated Tragic Flaw. I want sex to be part of human experience but not the ultimate goal or reward. I want everybody to be agents in their own sexuality (or absence of it), not objects or prizes to be pursued, or simply for the gratification of a stereotyped idea of what is assumed to be sexually valued by young adult men.
Moral complexity, definitely. Not necessarily characters having lots of onscreen angst about whether it is Right to cause harm in the name of a grand cause, and not villains who are at the extreme end of the range of human cruelty but are ineffectually portrayed as sympathetic when that's little more than a codeword for 'hot'. But something more nuanced than a grand battle between Good and Evil where if someone is defined as Good that automatically justifies behaviour that in the real world would not actually be Good.
Focus on character interactions and development. People who seem like real, multidimensionally complex people. I don't mind about the setting, it can be speculative and completely distanced from the real world. When I was a kid I gravitated towards books that have believable-to-me people in outrageous fantasy settings; my favourite example of the genre was probably Gillian Cross' The demon headmaster. The problem now as an adult, both with books and with TV, is that things that are character focused tend to also be 'literary' which often means they're about middle-class white north Americans living completely uninteresting suburban or minor academic lives. That's not a genre I inherently hate, but if it's the only way I'm going to character focused storytelling that isn't full of explosions and other flashy action sequences, I'm probably going to get bored of it.
So far I have found two shows that actually fit these not-superhero desiderata. They are both on annoying streaming services where we had to subscribe for just the one thing, but at least they exist. One is Ted Lasso S2; I was not at all interested in the premise, and I was worried it might be cringey, but it's actually a really good, definitely adult, definitely complex and interesting character piece. Like a lot of viewers I thought it went downhill from 2.9, because suddenly it's about various kinds of trauma rather than about characters repairing their lives after background trauma. In my opinion the show is just not on a solid enough foundation to deal directly with parental abuse, suicide, adultery and various kinds of violence. And it just doesn't pull off the sudden swerve from comedy with a dark edge to full-on drama.
And right now we're watching Station Eleven. It's an unlikely sort of show altogether, a mini-series about a book set in the aftermath of a devastating pandemic, that was itself made during the real-world pandemic. We have watched up to episode 6 'Survival is insufficient'; we're not exactly bingeing it because it's really dark and also requires a lot of concentration because it's all told non-linearly and full of unreliable viewpoints. What has really impressed me about it is that most of the cast look like real people. Nobody looks like a film star, most people even if they're young and fit are not particularly pretty, and there's a whole range of body types, and it actually feels credible that these people have lived through 20 years since the collapse of civilization. Definitely a show for adults, it has more than earned its 18 rating, but while it contains violence, it's not about lingering shots of people brutally attacking each other, it's about the people who live in a world which, like this one, sometimes contains extreme violence, but contains other elements of human experience too.
(no subject)
Date: 2022-04-30 08:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-04-30 09:03 pm (UTC)Thoughts
Date: 2022-05-01 02:20 am (UTC)There's ... not a lot of that left. Most shows for adults are based on either sex or violence, often both, and as a result they also tend to be simplistic with the exception of those using the soap opera model of implausibly intricate entanglements. I've seen very little that really models mature responses to problems. Lucifer and Once Upon a Time had that, but also a considerable amount of sex and violence.
>>Or into media aimed at children, according to a theory of childhood that says that children's media should be morally simple and wholesome and uplifting.<<
Honestly, some things aimed at children are better than some for adults. Even small children can understand some complications. Oscar the Grouch was a favorite because everyone clearly disapproved of his obnoxious behavior, but they didn't exclude him from the neighborhood or try to change him. That's a lot deeper than men's adventure shows where the main characters believe every problem can be solved by hitting. Now I like explosions as much as the next guy, but that's not all I like.
>> So what do I want out of not-superheroes, apart from less on-screen, explicit violence and explosions and T&A? <<
If you haven't already found it, "Gentle Fiction" is a genre with no sex, violence, or foul language. I'm not sure if there's a TV version that isn't also "Family Film" stuff. It is surprisingly quite difficult to write, because you need either a conflict or you are in kishotenketsu territory which is even harder. And most conflicts involve sex or violence or some other serious threat.
>> Shows that establish their own world and premise, that I can just drop into without first becoming an expert in decades of lore and mythos. New faces, not the same big-name actors who already have a huge following. <<
Sounds promising.
>> And actors, whether new or established, who aren't all pretty, young and white with idealized-according-to-Hollywood bodies and faces to the point where I can barely tell them apart. I want gender and racially and regionally and internationally diverse casts, not smurfette ensembles of five white guys with personalities and 'the girl one' or 'the Black one'.<<
One of the fastest ways to hook me with a movie or ensemble show is a cast diverse enough that none of the characters can be confused. Because otherwise, if they're all white, skinny, etc. I can't tell them apart.
Plus which, the overwhelming trend toward gray-on-gray morality means I also can't tell the sides apart in many modern shows. I have literally walked through a room with someone else's show on and seen a big fight scene with everyone in black and all fighting dirty. I'm supposed to care about one random bunch of these jerks? Ho hum.
>>I want characters with human motivations and minor imperfections, not archetypes with a designated Tragic Flaw.<<
Okay, here we differ. I love archetypes. I love seeing how they change from one era or culture to another, and what stays the same. How far can you get from a given archetype before it turns into something else? Which of the motifs are exchangeable and which are not? Storytelling is like an infinite box of Legos, and I love Legos too. :D
I also get a kick out of character builds. I read roleplaying manuals for that. I read writing articles for that. Heck, I read a good chunk of the Aarne-Thompson Index in college, because ... raw materials!
>> I want sex to be part of human experience but not the ultimate goal or reward. <<
I have found that a reliable way to achieve that is to work with established couples. My one and only this-world series is about a lesbian couple. It focuses on relationships and the community, with just an occasional dash of hot sauce.
An interesting piece of writing advice goes: How do you distinguish between romance and science fiction? If they save the day and then get together, it's romance; if they get together and then save the day, it's science fiction. The defining conflict is resolved last.
>> I want everybody to be agents in their own sexuality (or absence of it), not objects or prizes to be pursued, or simply for the gratification of a stereotyped idea of what is assumed to be sexually valued by young adult men.<<
I write all over the whole QUILTBAG and I enjoy watching it too. Once Upon a Time had a really sweet girl/girl romance in the final season. (It was not specified whether either of those characters liked or did not like other genders.) I have on rare occasions seen an "assumed female gaze" shot onscreen. They're rare but slowly getting more common, and at this point they're often slipped in without fanfare rather than hyped up like the male version often is.
>> Moral complexity, definitely. Not necessarily characters having lots of onscreen angst about whether it is Right to cause harm in the name of a grand cause, and not villains who are at the extreme end of the range of human cruelty but are ineffectually portrayed as sympathetic when that's little more than a codeword for 'hot'. <<
Hot mess, more like. Okay, I admit, I love a hot mess in entertainment if they're not stupid. But I don't like them in real life.
My favorite villains are the ones who are right and just nobody listens. Magneto is dead right about genocide. Poison Ivy is dead right about environmental degradation. They're villains only because they get to the line where the law and the superheroes stop, and they keep going, because they will not stop trying to solve that problem until they are dead. I really admire that, even if their tactics are sometimes appalling.
But then there's a risk. You have to be careful setting up a conflict and its solution, because the audience wants someone to root for and wants to be satisfied when the favorite wins. If the sides are too similar, the villain too sympathetic, or the hero too much of a jackass, then the ending isn't fun. I've read a few well-written books that were just plain unpalatable at the end because the author couldn't think of a satisfying solution to the huge mess they'd whipped up. But I truly love a situation that looks unsolvable until someone finds a third-road solution that, while it may not be everyone's favorite, is sufficient for the characters and pleasing to the readers.
>> But something more nuanced than a grand battle between Good and Evil where if someone is defined as Good that automatically justifies behaviour that in the real world would not actually be Good.<<
I have zero patience with plot-token Good. If they aren't doing good deeds and behaving honorably, they're just a villain in a white suit. It doesn't make them good, just dishonest. And that's why I'm put off by so much modern entertainment -- most of it involves characters who are morally and behaviorally the same, just someone picked a team and said "You root for these guys." Yeah no, all the characters are assholes, I'll go do something else now.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2022-05-02 09:56 am (UTC)That's a really good description. (I don't think it's ALWAYS last, but I think you can tell which is important even when it isn't.)
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2022-05-02 02:57 pm (UTC)But when it's a matter of romance ... I dunno, I think there's quite a large contingent of fiction containing both a defining high-stakes conflict and a romance subplot in which the characters quite sensibly agree to defer pursuing their romance until they're not also in the middle of trying to save the world or similar, and this should in essentially no case be taken as evidence that the romance rather than the conflict is the key part of the work. You end with a wedding (or an engagement, or whatever) not because the wedding was the whole point, but because it signals that Now We Have Time For Peaceful Doings Again and is part of the wrap-up that shows how much nicer the world is once the looming threat has been averted.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2022-05-02 05:32 pm (UTC)Ironically, I'd be more inclined to flip it. Solving the key challenge should enable you to do greater things, particular when a romance creates a great working team.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2022-05-02 01:32 pm (UTC)As I get older, I think I am becoming ever less interested in shows that are invested in making me root for anyone at all; present interesting people consistently in a good setting and let me make my own mind up on that front.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2022-05-02 05:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-01 11:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-04 10:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-01 04:20 pm (UTC)Oh I feel that so much. I used to like superhero stuff, but now that's it's just so everything and everywhere, I want anything but lol
The only recent show I can think of that I'd suggest is Our Flag Means Death, which you may have already heard of since it's very popular right now. It's got a couple biggish names, but most of the cast are not and there's a ton of diversity in race and body type. Plus there are a ton of queer characters, including a non binary one played by a non binary actor! It deals with a lot of themes about identity and family and finding love for the first time in middle age, all of which I think they handled well.
(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-02 09:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-02 01:30 pm (UTC)I have been primarily avoiding Station Eleven because of reports on aspects of it that may well be spoilery for how far you have got in it, so may come back to that when you are finished.
As shows that fit your criteria go, the strongest recommendation I would have from what's on my shelves is Slings and Arrows, though I have no idea how findable that might be from there; it is set at a names-barely-filed-off version of the Stratford, Ontario Shakespeare festival and centred on a troupe of smart, dedicated, and distinctly eccentric people attempting to produce plays despite various forms of adversity including internecine disagreement. There are three six-episode seasons, centred around Hamlet, Macbeth and King Lear respectively, and their exploration of the themes of these plays certainly felt to me like mature handling of adult complexity. It's a 2003-2006 show, and the cast diversity is better on some axes than others, I can only recall a couple of non-Caucasian characters but it has many excellent women; I'd also note that (IMO in keeping with the source plays) the second season is quite good but does not hit the heights of the first and third. Also, there is a huge twist at the end of the first episode that is fundamental to defining most of what comes afterward, and is the sort of thing that almost all discussion I have seen online spoils, but if at all possible it's worth coming to unspoiled; I have had much better results watching at least the first two episodes together than stopping after the first episode, as introducing people to this goes.
(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-04 09:59 am (UTC)I just wanted to say that not all children's TV is like that. Steven Universe is largely about trauma. She-Ra is definitely less morally simple than the children's TV I grew up with.
But still, I agree, simpler than the best of the media aimed at adults.
I do think we're missing the best of TV - we don't currently have a Mad Men, or a Sopranos, or The Wire, that I'm aware of.
You could probably do worse than take a look at https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/guide/best-tv-shows-of-2021/ and see if anything jumps out.
(I really must get to Our Flag Means Death soon.)
(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-05 03:47 am (UTC)Have you seen Russian Doll yet? I understand a second season has come out but haven't seen it yet, so I'm referring to season one which is entirely self-contained and wraps up with a bow. It's best to go in completely unspoilered, but I can provide a little more to go on if you need it to be enticed.
Also, I suspect that The Good Place might satisfy (again, through season 1, as I am not at all caught up.)
(no subject)
Date: 2022-05-11 11:21 pm (UTC)This won't solve all your problems. While the casts are not white they are mostly young and idealistically pretty. Chinese dramas as suffer form strong state censorship of most notably queerness, but also a host of things that seem random to outsiders like time travel.
However there are lot of interesting Asian dramas and you would likely find some you enjoy.