Relationship retrospective
Dec. 30th, 2004 09:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
livWhen bacteria want to have sex, they don't bother with things like gametes or reproductive organs or intercourse or any of the baroque eucaryote business of bringing into being offspring with some random assortment of their parents' genes. No, instead they just exchange information directly. I think my relationship with ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
lethargic_man could well be described as the memetic equivalent. A lot of the way we related to eachother was rooted in deliberately exchanging memes and culture and incorporating this into each of our ways of thinking; it was on a different level from the sort of general memetic exchange that happens just as a side-effect of spending a lot of time with someone.
See, I wanted to write a post about how wonderful this relationship was, and how I'm really, really glad that it happened, and that this grateful happiness far outweighs the fact that breaking up is no fun. But such a post would probably be boring or annoying to a lot of people, not to mention the fact that it would be exceedingly long. So instead, I'm going to make a list of the new stuff we've introduced to eachother's mental landscapes.
Just to make it clear (since some people were confused last time I used this metaphor): just because bacterial sex is pure information exchange, doesn't mean that all possible exchange of information is bacterial sex. Or any kind of sex, for that matter; I certainly don't imagine that I am sexually involved with everyone who ever lends or recommends me a book!
Music:lethargic_man made me a wonderful mix tape when we first started going out. This introduced me to the Afro Celts, Mike Oldfield, ELO and a bunch of others, but the really amazing thing about the mix tape was She cries your name, which has become one of those life-defining songs for me, and was the start of my becoming a huge fan of Beth Orton. The tape also convinced me to like Pärt, but failed to overturn my prejudice against Vaughan Williams. (In return I failed to convince lethargic_man to like Stravinsky.)
lethargic_man also introduced me to the War of the Worlds musical and some guitar music called Aranjuez, which includes a very cool version of Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte. And I can't exactly credit him with Pink Floyd, since I obviously knew of them already, but he did lend me The Wall which I hadn't previously heard in its entirety. I don't have the technology to make compilations, but I did introduce lethargic_man to Tori Amos and Sisters of Mercy (I think he'd already been primed in favour of the latter by rysmiel, but didn't actually know their stuff).
Beyond that, he also told me about a whole load of background about all kinds of pop music and artists. I tend to be extremely ignorant about the context of pop music, I interact with it on the level of 'that sounds nice' and don't generally go into much more depth. So I quite often don't know whether an artist, even an artist I like, is a group or a person, for example. I also don't find music particularly defining, so I'll move on to the real important part of this post, the book history of the relationship.
There may be stuff missed out of those lists, particularly because I started going out withlethargic_man in October 2002 and didn't get an LJ until the following May, so there's several months when I wasn't keeping a booklog and I'm reconstructing from memory. Anyway, on top of that, an email correspondence which, at a very rough estimate, amounts to approximately half a million words over the course of two years.
It may not be everyone's definition of romance, but it works for me.
Edited 1.1.05 to incorporate comments
lethargic_man could well be described as the memetic equivalent. A lot of the way we related to eachother was rooted in deliberately exchanging memes and culture and incorporating this into each of our ways of thinking; it was on a different level from the sort of general memetic exchange that happens just as a side-effect of spending a lot of time with someone.See, I wanted to write a post about how wonderful this relationship was, and how I'm really, really glad that it happened, and that this grateful happiness far outweighs the fact that breaking up is no fun. But such a post would probably be boring or annoying to a lot of people, not to mention the fact that it would be exceedingly long. So instead, I'm going to make a list of the new stuff we've introduced to eachother's mental landscapes.
Just to make it clear (since some people were confused last time I used this metaphor): just because bacterial sex is pure information exchange, doesn't mean that all possible exchange of information is bacterial sex. Or any kind of sex, for that matter; I certainly don't imagine that I am sexually involved with everyone who ever lends or recommends me a book!
Music:
lethargic_man made me a wonderful mix tape when we first started going out. This introduced me to the Afro Celts, Mike Oldfield, ELO and a bunch of others, but the really amazing thing about the mix tape was She cries your name, which has become one of those life-defining songs for me, and was the start of my becoming a huge fan of Beth Orton. The tape also convinced me to like Pärt, but failed to overturn my prejudice against Vaughan Williams. (In return I failed to convince lethargic_man to like Stravinsky.)lethargic_man also introduced me to the War of the Worlds musical and some guitar music called Aranjuez, which includes a very cool version of Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte. And I can't exactly credit him with Pink Floyd, since I obviously knew of them already, but he did lend me The Wall which I hadn't previously heard in its entirety. I don't have the technology to make compilations, but I did introduce lethargic_man to Tori Amos and Sisters of Mercy (I think he'd already been primed in favour of the latter by rysmiel, but didn't actually know their stuff).Beyond that, he also told me about a whole load of background about all kinds of pop music and artists. I tend to be extremely ignorant about the context of pop music, I interact with it on the level of 'that sounds nice' and don't generally go into much more depth. So I quite often don't know whether an artist, even an artist I like, is a group or a person, for example. I also don't find music particularly defining, so I'll move on to the real important part of this post, the book history of the relationship.
| I introduced lethargic_man to the following authors | And he introduced me to these authors |
|
|
There may be stuff missed out of those lists, particularly because I started going out with
lethargic_man in October 2002 and didn't get an LJ until the following May, so there's several months when I wasn't keeping a booklog and I'm reconstructing from memory. Anyway, on top of that, an email correspondence which, at a very rough estimate, amounts to approximately half a million words over the course of two years. It may not be everyone's definition of romance, but it works for me.
Edited 1.1.05 to incorporate comments
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-30 10:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 11:26 am (UTC)Indeed; there are some pretty inspiring names on the list, which is a big part of the reason I feel I've done very well out of this relationship! I'm pretty wild about A Canticle for Leibowitz too, but I'd consider using the term genius for a good third of the authors on the list.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 08:06 am (UTC)But explain to me how he introduced you to Frank Herbert when I persuaded you to read Dune all those years ago?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 08:27 am (UTC)Yay fun. I'm recommending Golden Witchbreed to pretty much everybody I see who's at all into reading.
But explain to me how he introduced you to Frank Herbert when I persuaded you to read Dune all those years ago?
Because I'm very stupid and forgot that Frank Herbert wrote Dune, I think. The book of his that M lent me is this rather crappy SF horror thing, and I didn't connect the name or the writing style with Dune at all. Also, technically you'd already introduced me to Hoban by making me listen to all those tapes about Frances the badger.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 08:40 am (UTC)That's so, I s'pose. What adult-y sort of stuff has he written?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 09:04 am (UTC)This rather bizarre SF thing called Riddley Walker (which I really must get round to reviewing). Basically, it's set in a post-nuclear devastation future, where the people have sort of vague folk memories of contemporary life. And it's written in this strange form of English which has become distorted through centuries of illiteracy. It's quite hard to read in a way but it's also quite poetic, and you get a sense of how oral traditions and mythologies can develop. I think it's the kind of book you'd probably like; somewhat Gaiman-esque, in a way.
Riddley Walker
Date: 2004-12-31 12:57 pm (UTC)[Replying to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
livredor's point but your post so you get the mail notification]
<raids mail archive>
If I add that the capitalised words in the above children's rhyme are all (UK) place names or wordplays thereupon (the actual names being Fork Stoan and Do It Over) can you work out where the story is set?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 11:05 am (UTC)Have you read the Lymond and Niccolo series? I'm reading King Hereafter at the moment and am finding it a bit dense.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 11:21 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 11:45 am (UTC)I've been going to some Dunnett meetings with Edward's aunts (one by marriage) who both love her as well - it is very interesting to talk to other people about it.
I think there's one in Essex in Feb and then in Edinburgh in April... I might be going to one or the other...
http://www.ddra.org/ (a not very up to date website)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 04:24 pm (UTC)That's the thing about reviews, they're suddenly a lot more interesting if you've read the book that's being referred to!
not wanting to know exactly what happens
Well, you pretty much know what happens; it's based on Macbeth, after all. And I did try not to give too much away. But it's probably sensible not to read too closely.
I've been going to some Dunnett meetings
Ooh, interesting, I never knew she had such an active fanclub. Cool!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-05 10:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-06 05:34 pm (UTC)Re: Relationship retrospective
Date: 2004-12-31 02:17 pm (UTC)and yes, this sort of thing is definitely within my own slightly odd view of romance. and i wouldn't be bored if you were to make a post burbling about how wonderful the relationship was. :) it gives me great pleasure to hear other people talk about how marvelous their unconventional relationships are.
Re: Relationship retrospective
Date: 2004-12-31 02:47 pm (UTC)Well, I'm not sure the list is entirely representative, cos it leaves out some major categories. Like, the writers we'd both already read (mainly classic SF, Asimov, Wyndham, HG Wells, Brunner etc). And the writers we thought the other wouldn't appreciate: girly romance in my case, and stuff with a lot of violence or horror in
this sort of thing is definitely within my own slightly odd view of romance.
I think it's partly a geek thing, isn't it? But I'm pleased to hear you can see why I think this is cool, anyway!
i wouldn't be bored if you were to make a post burbling about how wonderful the relationship was. :)
Well, I might yet. I'll see how I feel. And there's always about three posts in my head for every one I manage to actually commit to writing.
it gives me great pleasure to hear other people talk about how marvelous their unconventional relationships are.
I love hearing about people's happy relationships, even the conventional ones. But then I like hearing about whatever people want to talk about, which doesn't mean I should be so free to talk about everything that happens to come into my head.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-12-31 06:35 pm (UTC)I know I mentioned this before, but that song is sooooooooooooo good. As is Beth, in general!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 04:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 01:45 pm (UTC)It sounds lovely - but then I've always preferred memetic relationships, the ideas and concepts stay with you forever and change you as a person.
And congratulations on an e-mail correspondence that rivals some of mine over longer periods. Most impressive!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 04:28 pm (UTC)It is, very. I'm glad you appreciate what I'm saying :-)
I've always preferred memetic relationships,
I think all relationships are to some extent memetic. Unless it was a relationship based entirely on sex, I suppose. It's just that this one was particularly so.
the ideas and concepts stay with you forever and change you as a person.
Yes, definitely, that's exactly what I'm getting excited about in this post.
And congratulations on an e-mail correspondence that rivals some of mine over longer periods. Most impressive!
I need to prod
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 06:49 pm (UTC)Anyhow, it turns out your rough estimate was surprisingly good. From your main email address since we started going out, with quoted text, .sigs and mail headers (but not "On suchty-such you wrote", because that appeared in such diverse forms) stripped out, my archive of emails (not including LJ followups) from you comes to the grand total of 466 551 words.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-04 12:00 pm (UTC)All I was going to ask you was for the file size of your email archive, and use that as a more helpful basis for my estimate. Cos your archive is all in one place and one format, whereas mine is scattered all over the place so figuring out how big it is is a bit of a chore.
grand total of 466 551 words.
OK, I'm impressed now. I was not at all expecting that level of precision. I think both your computer and your brain are more suited to extracting this kind of information than mine. I hope it didn't take you an unreasonably long time!
It's actually quite a scary thought; when I came up with half a million I was thinking, well, that's plus or minus, so I didn't really internalize it. But now I have an actual figure I have more confidence in, it's quite weird to think we've written, like, several novels' worth of emails to eachother. I suppose the conclusion is that if you asked me out in order to prod me to be a better correspondent you certainly succeeded!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 10:02 pm (UTC)Oh, agreed - having thought further, I think what I liked was that you definitely seemed to be on the side of helping each other evolve, rather than forming one organism. I'm not sure whether that will make any sense, but there is a tendency of some relationships to focus on building a shared world, which is great if the relationship is permanent, but less so if its a crossing of paths. I just loved the way you seem to have enriched each other's lives and focused on that particularly, in a way that will continue now.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-04 12:05 pm (UTC)Oh, I really like that metaphor. Yes. It's a really nice extension of where I was going with the joke about the bacteria, thank you.
I just loved the way you seem to have enriched each other's lives and focused on that particularly, in a way that will continue now.
That too. I would definitely like to think of the relationship that way; that's very much why I like the 'memetic' thing.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 08:22 pm (UTC)I hadn't realised it was life-defining for you (how is it so?).
and was the start of my becoming a huge fan of Beth Orton.
This amuses me because until relatively recently, all I had known was your immediate reaction, which was to say, dismissively as I thought, evidently wrongly, "She's just like Joni Mitchell."
and some cool guitar music (I've unfortunately forgotten the name of the artist), notably a very cool version of Ravel's Pavane pour une infante défunte.
The album is Aranjuez (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004WZK5/102-6833315-5600120?v=glance), by Jan Akkerman and Claus Ogerman.
There may be stuff missed out of those lists, particularly because I started going out with
I reckon you've missed at least James Michener, and, I think, Edwin Abbott. (Remind me, have you read Pale Fire yet?) Plus Bram Stoker and Michael Marshall Smith, which I gave you whilst we were going out but you've not got around to reading yet.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 08:42 pm (UTC)I was really taken with it when you first gave me the tape, and then I started listening to it over and over. And then, as you know, I told the Yahoo jukebox thingy that I liked Beth Orton, in order to see if I liked any of her other stuff, and I did, so I went and bought Trailer Park. This allowed me to listen to She cries your name even more repeatedly. I'm back and forth between that and Someone's daughter, but the latter doesn't have any particular associations other than being a song that I really, really like.
It's hard to define exactly what I mean by life-defining; it's sort of chicken and egg really. I mean, there are songs that really grab me and I relate to very strongly emotionally, so I decide to listen to them lots. And this fixes them very firmly in my mind and gives me even more associations with them. So, She cries your name is a song I'll always associate strongly with the past couple of years, which obviously encompasses going out with you as well as general getting on with my life stuff.
This amuses me because until relatively recently, all I had known was your immediate reaction, which was to say, dismissively as I thought, evidently wrongly, "She's just like Joni Mitchell."
I actually did mean that as a high compliment. I like Joni Mitchell a lot; I've been obsessed at different times with Big yellow taxi (that was when it was in the charts when I was a teenager), Both sides now (from when I was going out with
The album is Aranjuez, by Jan Akkerman and Claus Ogerman.
Thank you! Very helpful indeed.
I reckon you've missed at least James Michener
Oh, good point, will add that.
and, I think, Edwin Abbott
Remind me which book? Name doesn't sound familiar.
have you read Pale Fire yet?
Nope; that makes it a bit unclear whether I should add Nabokov to the list, and Marshall Smith is in the same situation! I'm sure you will keep on recommending me books and I'll keep reading them, so I think it makes most sense to stick to books I actually read while we were going out.
Plus Bram Stoker
I'm not sure you get credit for him; I was planning to read Dracula anyway, it's just that you happened to give me a copy. I mean, I do appreciate that, but I don't count it as something I read on your recommendation particularly. Just like I didn't list Bulgakov, even though it was your copy that I read, since it wasn't really your idea for me to read him.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 08:51 pm (UTC)Flatland.
Nope; that makes it a bit unclear whether I should add Nabokov to the list,
Oh, did I give you a copy? ;^)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-01 08:57 pm (UTC)And no, you haven't given me a copy of Pale Fire, but that's not the point. I'm interested in memes here, not physical books. What actually happened was that you found on the web that Dundee library had it, but every time I tried to go there and borrow it it wasn't actually there. And then I stopped going to the library because I never got round to replacing my card when it was nicked, and because I always had so many of your books already that I didn't want to borrow any more until I'd read them all. I may well think of going back now that I'm single and theoretically have more free time for reading.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-03 10:04 pm (UTC)