Travelling: Nottingham

[liv]

I have spent over 16 hours travelling in the past two days in order to go to my sister's 21^st. This is probably an indication that I'm completely mad, but I'm glad I did it anyway.

P'tite soeur is an extremely talented organizer of parties. She managed to gather together about 20 of her friends from various different contexts, including schoolfriends and all three of her siblings. She pointed out this made it the first occasion in well over a year when the four of us have been in one place simultaneously! So very, very good to see the sibs. We had lots of long and crazy arguments about politics and philosophy and language, and the Persegirls joined in tentatively and Screwy did his usual thing, so subtle you have to be watching to notice it, of drawing in the shier people and making them feel their opinions were worth hearing.

The party itself was enjoyable. It wasn't one of those phenomenal parties that everybody ends up talking about forever after, but everybody had a good time and it was sociable and all the disparate groups got on well. Even with two brothers present the male:female ratio was exceedingly skewed to the fairer sex, but I don't think the couple of guys present coped too badly with this. Amusing quote of the evening: a Nottingham friend of P'tite Soeur's asks a Cambridge friend of hers: So, have you known [S] since she was [livredor]'s age then?

We went out for a meal at a Turkish restaurant, a very pleasant place with a generous set menu for £15 a head. There was a lot of food; I ate too much and I rarely do that, but anyway, when they brought a complementary cake for P'tite Soeur I just couldn't manage one crumb of it. Food was nothing special, fairly standard generic middle-eastern fare, but not bad either. I went a bomb on the pickled chillis, I adore those things. A minor problem was that although P'tite Soeur had specifically checked out the restaurant as being wheelchair accessible, she hadn't realized that as a pre-booked large party, we were in a semi-private room upstairs. We dealt with this by means of Thuggish Poet physically carrying Screwy up the stairs in his chair; my brother is a strong lad! Oh, and very randomly indeed, puzzlering showed up with VM (who as well as being a Persegirl is / was our next-door neighbour in Cambridge.)

Then we headed on to a cocktail bar, which was in principle a nice place but very Saturday-night crowded and thus excessively loud and heaving. I can imagine wanting to drink there at quieter times; the ambience was very pleasant, slightly old-fashioned decor that was neither olde-worlde nor ultra-trendy, but just nice, with light wood and comfy chairs and rooms that were potentially spacious even when over-full. And a good range of cocktails which were generous and reasonably priced. Really, we'd bonded as a group so much that by this stage were more interested in conversations than drinking or being part of the scene. So we were attempting to have a lot of highly intellectual discussions at shouted volume. Of course, this being England at the scandalously late hour of 11 pm, there were no options for quieter (or less smoky) places that were still open.

We managed to get about 5 (large!) cocktails into P'tite Soeur in the hour before they kicked us out. She is a very cute drunk, like an exaggerated version of her usual chatty and affectionte self. So I got lots of hugs and lots of background information about her love-life. Short version (and not revealing too many embarrassing confidences): she is best of best friends with the guy who dumped her a year ago due to geography, and this in spite of the fact that they still have serious feelings for eachother. If she must repeat my history at least she's doing so in upbeat and happy mode.

Thuggish Poet, by contrast, is in the aftermath of a really nasty breakup with the girl he'd been seeing for the past couple of years. There's not much I can do for him beyond listening sympathetically but it's a real pity to see that. Screwy is physically in very poor health; he's been plagued by minor infections, which tend to hit him hard for a combination of reasons, and the antibiotics he has to take to prevent even worse consequences tend to cause other symptoms. I was really shocked when I saw him in decent light for the first time when we got back to P'tite soeur's place at around 1 am: he's disturbingly pale and underweight even by his standards. He says he's anaemic which would explain the vampiric appearance but I'm a bit concerned. But apart from that he's happy; he says he's getting better at his job and that life is good for him.

We ended up with about 10 of us staying over; we stayed up for a bit carrying on the fun conversations and laughing at P'tite soeur's amusing lack of balance. The only downside to this part of the evening was that the house appears to have only two CDs: a Beatles one and some "Latin Groove" crap, and even the first we heard far too many times. Six hours' sleep sharing a single mattress with P'tite Soeur and in the middle of a cold draft led me to conclude that I'm getting too old for student parties! But this morning P'tite Soeur got up with me at 8.30 and not only made me tea, but even some very grand cheese sandwiches for my lunch, and was generally incredibly cheerful and lovely, especially considering how little sleep and how much alcohol she'd had. Love my sis.

One of the Persegirls travelled with me as far as Leeds, which made the journey back a lot less miserable than it might have been. Lovely girl. She got me talking about my work and I was babbling about it lots as I do, and she commented that it was lovely the way I talk about high-powered intellectual stuff without being condescending or showing off. I'm really pleased by that remark! It's really amusing to switch back into Persegirl register. Even though I don't know most of P'tite Soeur's friends that well, we have such an obvious shared background and oh boy, the Persegirl mannerisms were out in force with five of us in one room.

OK, so I'm dog-tired and my nose and throat are irritated by all the cigarette smoke which is also making my hair and clothes smell disgusting. But it was a fun weekend and it's very lovely to have the freedom to do crazy things like that!

Comments

[emma]

Sounds like you've had a good weekend :)

But I have to ask: what's a Persegirl?

[darcydodo]

But I have to ask: what's a Persegirl?

*snicker*

From my perspective, something to be collected. ;)

[liv]

The Perse is the school I and my sister went to in Cambridge. Persegirls are stereotypical for various things, such as being very brainy, quite confident / pushy, talking way too fast and with certain characteristics of speech.

We're a bit of a mafia throughout UK universities. Like, the person I know in common with you at Bangor, Mal, is sort of a Persegirl (although she isn't really, she was only there for one year so she didn't have time to become assimilated). The point is that my knowing her is an example of the mafia being the mafia.

[shreena.livejournal.com]

Heh, I'm not sure about confident/pushy.. ;) Is that Mal Sassoon? If so, I remember her.. she was cool.

[liv]

Heh, I'm not sure about confident/pushy.. ;)
You're not? I think it's really obvious. Not everyone is as outgoing as I am, but it's really noticeable to me in mixed groups that the Persegirls stand out as being much more ready to express their opinions, argue, interrupt, put themselves forward etc.

Like at this party I was just at, the brothers were rambling on about whatever random stuff they've been reading recently, and the non-Persegirls were like, who are these mad people and how am I supposed to talk to them?! whereas the Persegirls were joining in the discussion heartily. And similarly when I was teaching Sunday school, you could always spot the Persegirls cos they would be the ones who would have their hands up every time you asked a question, the ones who volunteered for everything that needed volunteers, the ones who even at the age of 7 or 8 had no problems speaking in front of the whole community...

I think Persegirls tend to have the attitude, which a lot of women don't, that they can have whatever they want.

I'm trying to keep surnames out of public posts as far as possible, because I don't think it's fair to mention someone in an identifiable and googlable way without their permission, and I can't get the permission of everyone I want to mention. Mal's surname is similar but not identical to 'Sassoon'; she's the Irish girl from my year who only joined in U6. And yeah, she was indeed and still is cool.

[shreena.livejournal.com]

I don't think Perse girls are universally confident/pushy. They are articulate and argumentative (on the whole), but when it comes to things like dealing with romance/sex, I think they tend to be rather underconfident. Perhaps this is just the ones I'm close to, but I would say that most of my schoolfriends are less secure than average when it comes to anything that isn't intellectual/career related.

So, in other words, I agree with what you said, but was looking at it from a different angle.

Fair enough, re: surnames, I've just remembered the correct version but won't mention it.

[liv]

I would say that most of my schoolfriends are less secure than average when it comes to anything that isn't intellectual/career related.
Very fair point. I am possibly being Persegirlish myself by ignoring all other aspects of life! I think the stereotype is that Persegirls are very confident, but the reality is obviously more complicated.

[elemy.livejournal.com]

Heh, I'm not sure about confident/pushy..

Hey! I object to being called pushy. And, objectively speaking, it's not a word I'd apply to many of the perse girls I know.

Confidence is an odd one. I agree Perse girls are more ready to express their opinions, volunteer for stuff, try new things etc. On the other hand if you talk to them about themselves they really don't see themselves as anything special.

I'd suggest the common attitude is "I'm nothing special as I am, but there's no intrinsic reason why I shouldn't be as great as [insert ideal perse-girl here], so nothing's going to stop me trying"

[shreena.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was the "pushy" bit that I had trouble with too. I think Perse girls tend to be very polite, they just have few qualms about talking and expressing opinions.

[liv]

Hey! I object to being called pushy.
Well, I agree with you, actually, pushy is pretty unfair. I was trying to be balanced by using both a positive and a negative term. But personally I think it's absolutely a good thing to state your opinions with conviction, to ask for what you want (assuming it's reasonable) and expect your wishes to be respected etc. It's just that this can come across as pushy to some more timid observers.

I agree Perse girls are more ready to express their opinions, volunteer for stuff, try new things etc.
That's what I meant by confident, I think. You're right that Persegirls are no more likely than anyone else to have high opinions of themselves, they just come across as being confident because of the characteristic you've described.

[(Anonymous)]

"Like at this party I was just at, the brothers were rambling on about whatever random stuff they've been reading recently, and the non-Persegirls were like, who are these mad people and how am I supposed to talk to them?! whereas the Persegirls were joining in the discussion heartily"

Maybe something to do with the fact that the non Persians (as my friends and I like to call ourselves) were not very near 'the brothers' so weren't going to go joining in the discussion. Furthermore, some of the Persians who were near them were more like the non Perse girls you describe above. I can also think of several of my non Perse friends who happily chatted to 'the brothers'.

I agree there are certain traits that are common to many Perse girls but it is far from true that all Perse girls act in that way. At least, many of my friends don't act that way.

- P'tite Soeur

PS

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yeah, forgot to say: I spend a lot of the time thinking 'who are these mad people and how can I join in their discussion?' and they're my brothers

[liv]

I agree there are certain traits that are common to many Perse girls but it is far from true that all Perse girls act in that way.
I think you're right; like all stereotypes it has a grain of truth but it's also way simpler than the reality! I think my comment came from the fact that it seemed to me there was a really noticeable difference in confidence and general mannerisms between the Persegirls (not sure about Persians; surely it should be Perseans, no?) and everybody else at the party. But there may be other factors, like the fact that the Persegirls vaguely know me (and the brothers, of course) and most of your other friends hadn't met us before.

[daneres.livejournal.com]

Hello there. Forgive me for butting in, but I found your journal through Friends Reunited and as a Perse Girl myself, think your definition very interesting. I had never really considered us to be a breed in our own right, probably because I don't have regular contact with any of my school friends any more. However, a number of my current friends know Perse girls through different routes and an ex flat mate has commented on similarities between us which I had previously vehemently denied! If I had read the definition when I left school, I would have strongly disagreed with it, as I was probably at my least confident at that point in my life, was happier disappearing into the woodwork than taking an active part in discussions and would certainly not have described myself as brainy, although I prefer the word academic (and I blame the school for this, since by not even applying for Oxbridge, I was made to feel inferior). However, more years later than I care to count, and feeling I know myself fairly well, I think your summary does describes me fairly accurately, right down to the pushy bit and I will be passing it to my other half for his comments!

[liv]

Forgive me for butting in,
Not at all! I always welcome comments from anyone who happens to read. Welcome!

I found your journal through Friends Reunited
Oh good, glad that avenue is working well. It's a tricky balance, I'm trying to be findable to humans and not to Google.

as a Perse Girl myself, think your definition very interesting
I'm pleased I'm not being allowed to get away with making too many blanket generalizations! If it's not too personal a question, approx how old are you?

had never really considered us to be a breed in our own right
I think when most of the people you meet are other Persegirls, you don't really notice it! And some of it really is just stereotyping and not much to do with reality.

If I had read the definition when I left school, I would have strongly disagreed with it, as I was probably at my least confident at that point in my life,
I know exactly what you mean. The Perse has a bad effect on some people of making them feel they're stupid if they don't get straight As and go to Oxbridge. And I knew way way too many anoxerics and people who felt like horrible failures at school.

But I think what happens is that people go to university (pretty much everyone does, which also says something), and realize that they're actually doing very well compared to a lot of people out there in the real world. And even with the self-doubt thing, the training in speaking up for yourself and expecting to get what you want is still visible for many Old Perseans.

[daneres.livejournal.com]

If it's not too personal a question, approx how old are you?
I'm earlyish 30s. We did know each other at school, although I was some way ahead. If you read my username backwards, ignoring the last/first letter since that relates to my married surname, you may remember me, although I won't be offended if you don't!

[liv]

I can think of several people with that name. But my best guess is that you used to be on the Bishop's Stortford to Cambridge train, you were in sixth form when I was in Junior School, and you used to look after me when I was a tiny scared little thing despised by most of the train crowd near my age, and especially when I cut my head larking around.

If I'm right you're the person I had the hugest crush on when I was 8 or so, and in this case I have not remotely forgotten you. Indeed, I coerced my siblings into naming our rocking horse after you because I was just that starry eyed. If you are not that person, hm, I will have to keep guessing... do you have a sister close to my age?

[daneres.livejournal.com]

Right first time. I'd forgotten there was more than one person with the same name at school, but I do remember another one now you mention it. I'm very flattered to have had a rocking horse named after me...

The world's mysteries....

[(Anonymous)]

I can't believe you named our rocking horse after someone you had a crush on at the age of 8! I'm shocked and outraged. And there was me thinking it was just a pretty name you happened to like/think was grown up.
- P'tite Soeur as you like to call me

[liv]

I can't believe you named our rocking horse after someone you had a crush on at the age of 8! I'm shocked and outraged.
Well, you see, when I was 8 you used to believe everything I said. It was great being the oldest :-p

And there was me thinking it was just a pretty name you happened to like/think was grown up.
Well, it is a pretty name. And daneres is a really nice person, so I don't think using her name did any harm.

- P'tite Soeur as you like to call me
You can have a different name if you want. I only call you that cos I couldn't think of anything original.

your sis is cool

[(Anonymous)]

Just to say that it was great to hear about Sarah's party through the eyes of her big sis (even though I don't know you -amazing how technology and the world of blogging has changed social relationships!) You share the same great witty writing style - love it. Your sis is a great person. It's shame I couldn't be there for the party, but I'll ply her with a few more birthday cocktails when I go to stay next week.
Have a nice life - maybe we'll meet one day when Sarah gets hitched!!!
Ciara

Re: your sis is cool

[liv]

My sister is indeed very cool. How on earth did you find this blog if you don't even know who I am (and my surname isn't mentioned anywhere?) I'm really intrigued. Pleased to meet you, anyway.

amazing how technology and the world of blogging has changed social relationships!
It certainly has, but I'm quite surprised to see a friend of S's discussing it in these terms; I get the impression S herself thinks blogging is unbearably nerdy. Anyway, it's nice to virtually meet you and you're welcome to read if you're into blogging and find mine fun. Do you have a blog of your own I could link to?

You share the same great witty writing style - love it.
I am exceedingly flattered, cos I really like my sister's writing. *grin*

maybe we'll meet one day when Sarah gets hitched!!!
Maybe. That would really be very amusing.

Re: your sis is cool

[(Anonymous)]

To be honest I didn't know a thing about blogging (not even the word itself) until this year when one of my friends decided to write her Master's paper on it. (She's a great source of new vocab - today's word being infotainment.)Then suddenly all these friends of mine started to blog themselves. Haven't, as yet, started my own (possibly put off by the fact that a close friend sees it as public masturbation!) but they are such a great entertaining and interesting procrastination tool especially on days like today - I never want to hear the words 'systemic' 'functional' and 'linguistics' in the same sentence again, ever! (Minor rant sorry!)
So yeah err Sarah gave me the link so no worries about being googled out.