Diary: couply weekend

[liv]

So lethargic_man came up for the weekend and it was utterly lovely.

This weekend included:

Lots of wandering around Dundee in the most utterly gorgeous winter sunlight. Some of the wandering was in the Botanic gardens, and some across various pretty or interesting parts of town, and we took in the Sensation Science museum, which is rather kid-focused but not bad for that, and we got to play with compilerbitch's face-morphing machines. And Saturday afternoon we walked out to Broughty Ferry and watched the sun set over the Tay firth (which wasn't quite so disgustingly soppy as it probably sounds!) and had a meal there after Shabbat.

No snow despite the weather forecast's promises, but not much actual warmth either.

Some astronomy. Since Shabbat came in so early, we had a bit of slack time on Friday evening and used it to visit the Observatory and look through big telescopes at the moon and the Pleiades. I very nearly wimped out of going since it was seriously cold by the time it was dark, but lethargic_man talked me back into it, and I'm extremely glad he did.

Plenty of snuggling. Given that we only see eachother once a month, and the various other constraints, it's easy to forget that our relationship actually has a physical dimension as well as all the other good things.

Lots of silliness and laughing together.

Some chevruta. lethargic_man has been doing some learning with the Masorti crowd and had all kinds of cool stuff to pass on to me, about things like the Masorti approach to halacha, women's participation in liturgy, and the ethical aspects of keeping kosher, so that was fun.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of conversation, some of which was even about topics unrelated to rysmiel. Yay spending the whole weekend talking.

Not nearly enough sleep, but it was so worth it to be able to cram as much interaction as possible into a couple of days.

***

We also revisted the discussion about our relationship having a defined expiry date, and concluded that the end of the year is probably better defined than the other date we were previously thinking of. So there won't be many more weekends like this, or many more occasions to annoy people who object to posts as soppy as this. It was a good discussion to have even if my heart aches at the moment. Most of my literal muscles ache too, but in spite of these things and in spite of the rather scary implications of a couple of points in this paragraph, I'm quite ridiculously happy.

To compound the happiness of this weekend even further, lethargic_man brought me proper challah, and returned to me my Sisters of Mercy CD which I'd been missing somewhat.

Comments

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

This sounds wonderful. I'm so glad you had such a good weekend.

I'm sorry about the sadness connected with the expiry date.

[galliana.livejournal.com]

I like your boyfriend, too. He's one of the geekiest people I've ever met, and he's very cool.

Expiry date? Should I be tactful and not ask?

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Expiry date? Should I be tactful and not ask?

I echo that...

[hmw26.livejournal.com]

And me.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

I like your boyfriend, too. He's one of the geekiest people I've ever met, and he's very cool.

*blush* 'nk you.

Expiry date? Should I be tactful and not ask?

livredor, should I explain this, or should you?

[liv]

should I explain this, or should you?
Well, I'm having a go at explaining, but I'm certainly not going to turn down any help if you want to chip in.

[liv]

I like your boyfriend, too. He's one of the geekiest people I've ever met, and he's very cool.
*bounce* *basks in reflected glory* Thank you, that's a really lovely thing to say!

Expiry date? Should I be tactful and not ask?
Nah, you can ask as tactlessly as you like. Part of the reason I wrote the comment was to make myself accept the imminent breakup as an actual fact, ie something I talk about, rather than something I'm pretending isn't there. Besides, the number of other people who also want to know suggests that it's a particularly useful question!

*sigh* So, the story is that lethargic_man and I get on really well. Really well. But we don't really have compatible life plans in the long term. So, at some point we're going to have to break up. And we decided (a long time ago) that we would set a definite date on it, because otherwise we were never going to be able to bring ourselves to make the decision. And now that definite date is all of a sudden soon, rather than ages away. There's complication about me finishing my PhD in there somewhere too, but that's the bones of it.

[shreena.livejournal.com]

Why set a definite date rather than waiting for life plans to do the job for you? Because then, if they didn't, you wouldn't have to bother!

[galliana.livejournal.com]

compilerbitch and doseybat have faced this issue. They've opted to wait and see what comes up. I'm not sure what I'd do in a similar situation. I suspect that my priorities are different, though. Relationship over career. This is easy for me to say as I don't currently *have* a career. Also, with science, it should be a vocation. I *do* understand vocations. Sorry. Random and garbled.

[taimatsu]

Where does one get proper challah? I had some once many years ago at the house of a Jewish schoolfriend (to whom I must send email!) and I really liked it. I know it's a celebratory food in Jewish tradition, so I have never been quite sure whether it's something that it's okay for non-Jews to buy and serve in non-Jewish-celebratory situations; but then, I guess Nicole's mother wouldn't have offered it if it were exclusive in that way :)

Challah

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Where does one get proper challah?

<has a look at your userinfo to see where you are^*> Answer: Here (http://www.rhc.org.uk/shop.php), most probably.

I know it's a celebratory food in Jewish tradition, so I have never been quite sure whether it's something that it's okay for non-Jews to buy and serve in non-Jewish-celebratory situations;

Perfectly. It's not sacramental in the way that Christian holy bread is.

Re: Challah

[taimatsu]

Thank you! And yes, that's me :)

Re: Challah

[liv]

I have to say, the phrase Christian holy bread is just cracking me up. Anyway.

[hatam-soferet.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you had a nice weekend, haven't seen you around (as it were) for a while, and I assumed your thesis had eaten you. Glad you managed to escape for a bit.

Expiry date: that's a very safe approach, but you know what I think.

Challah: yay! Mine were stones this weekend. It was horrible! I just baked a better one, a monster, which I'm going to freeze for next week.

Learning: what did you learn? telltell!

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Learning: what did you learn? telltell!

I'll leave livredor to answer this; I just wanted to say how endearing this reaction of yours was.

And happy belated birthday, btw.

[liv]

I'm glad you had a nice weekend
Yay, twas indeed lovely.

I assumed your thesis had eaten you.
I think it may soon. I'm getting a bit panicky, plus the Überboss is around until the Christmas break, so I really, really want to get as much done as I can before he disappears forever. Preferably all of it.

Glad you managed to escape for a bit.
Yay, I had nearly three days of utter skiviness! It was very lovely indeed.

Expiry date: that's a very safe approach, but you know what I think.
At this moment, it's tempting to wish you were right.

Challah: yay! Mine were stones this weekend.
Sorry to hear that. I think you do quite well on balance, though, considering that you do homemade challah quite a reasonable proportion of the time, whereas I get excited about very occasional shop challah. But have fun freezing your monster challah, anyway!

Masorti halacha

[liv]

what did you learn? telltell!
Probably not much that's new to you.

Let's see. Masorti people basically talk about halacha in the same words as Reform people, but they mean different things by the same words, largely. The idea of the chain of tradition as an interlocking web rather than a linear progression (I'm not sure myself that it's true that the Orthodox view or the Torah miSinai view imply linearity, but never mind). The word Masorti as a reference to the opening of Pirke Avot.

What this seems to mean is sometimes ignoring strict chronology, kind of, if we like the way they did things in the 15^th century better than the way they did things in either the 19^th century or the first, then hey, we'll use the 15^th century minhag. The usual Masorti thing of, if we can find any rabbi anywhere who ever ruled the way we like, we're justified in calling it halachic.

Interpreting halacha in the light of science and appropriately for modern society; that's fairly standard Masorti stuff, and M's shiurs didn't really seem to expand on that much.

Contrast between 'open' Torah, descriptive records of the state of the debate through most of the first millennium, and the 'closed', proscriptive legal codes which start from Mishneh Torah and go on into the modern day. Return to a more open system of halacha. Shulchan Aruch described as 'anal and pedantic to the point of blasphemy', which is a lovely phrase even if not a rigourous justifcation for rejecting SA!

women in liturgy

[liv]

You really obviously know all this stuff! What exactly was the role of the ezrat nashim in the Temple, used by both men and women were able to go to other parts of the temple as well. The whole thing about separating sexes for mourning in Nach, and for the water-drawing ceremony in Succot in Talmud. The women's balcony that was built in the Temple, several lines of evidence seem to suggest a temporary structure.

Also, evidence both from within Jewish sources, and external stuff like Josephus and the NT, that women attended Temple services and participated in synagogue worship ever since there were synagogues.

Lack of early sources about segregating women, extreme lack of any pre-modern sources about mechitza. Sources that do exist about minimal mechitza not preventing women from following what's going on, just symbolic barrier. Sarky comments about how Shira Chadasha are fine with calling women up and women leading, but still can't get rid of mechitza (my comment: not at all the same issue).

Masorti are not completely decided about egalitarianism (as is obvious to anyone who's spent time in the Masorti community). A bit of weird stuff about how being sexist makes it impossible to fit in with modern society in the same way that keeping an unreasonable level of kashrut would. I really don't think the two cases are at all analogous, but hey.

The ethical kashrut stuff I'm very familiar with, since I've been into ethical kashrut since I was fifteen. But it's nice to be reminded I'm not the only person in the world doing it. And we looked at a responsum which ruled that factory farmed veal should always be regarded as treif, with digressions into the intersection between kashrut and tzaar baalei chayim. Unfortunately M couldn't remember where this responsum was from; it's interesting in different ways depdending if it's Orthodox, Masorti or Conservative.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

(Friends locked cos lethargic_man is shy about this sort of thing.)

I am? Well, yes, not specifically this sort of thing. I don't see why you can't make this post public if you want.

Most of my literal muscles ache too

Mine don't. ;^b See, told you you need to get out of the house and do more exercise.

[liv]

I don't see why you can't make this post public if you want.
K. I only locked it for your sake, so if you don't mind I'll public it.

See, told you you need to get out of the house and do more exercise.
Yes, I know. One of the scary implications I alluded to in my final note is the fact that I'm this tired after a gentle stroll of a few miles. That says very bad things about the kind of shape I'm in, and I think may even give me the oomph to actually do something about my lack of exercise!

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

Lots and lots and lots and lots of conversation, some of which was even about topics unrelated to rysmiel.

Note to self: must try harder.

We also revisted the discussion about our relationship having a defined expiry date, and concluded that the end of the year is probably better defined than the other date we were previously thinking of. So there won't be many more weekends like this, or many more occasions to annoy people who object to posts as soppy as this. It was a good discussion to have even if my heart aches at the moment. Most of my literal muscles ache too, but in spite of these things and in spite of the rather scary implications of a couple of points in this paragraph, I'm quite ridiculously happy.

This, I am afraid, is one of those places where one or both of you are off in an emotional reality that I do not think it is possible to get to starting from where I am; I do worry for you, as you are neither of you people I wish to see hurting, but I shall take your word on the ridiculously happy and try not to let that concern grow too large or in inappropriate directions.

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Lots and lots and lots and lots of conversation, some of which was even about topics unrelated to rysmiel.

Note to self: must try harder.

In which direction?

It didn't help that every time I vanished for five minutes, I came back to find livredor's nose buried in your novel, nor that I couldn't resist repeatedly leafing through it myself looking for what has changed...

[liv]

You know, I was a little worried that you'd offer me sympathy over this, and I wasn't sure how I'd cope with that. Concern and incomprehension I can deal with, though. As ever, you're more sensitive than I expect people to be.

one or both of you are off in an emotional reality that I do not think it is possible to get to starting from where I am
I think it would be good for me to have another go at explaining this plan to you. Not denying the possibility that we may be thinking in ways that simply don't make sense to you, regardless of how well explained. But yeah.

I do worry for you
I think I would worry about us too. I mean, neither of us really has much clue about this sort of thing. And it has occurred to me that we're handling the situation in a pretty unconventional way, and maybe there's a reason why most people don't react like this.

you are neither of you people I wish to see hurting
Thanks, I appreciate both the sentiment and the delicacy of expression. I can't promise you that we're going to be ok, both of us, but I do honestly believe we will be.

try not to let that concern grow too large or in inappropriate directions
Well, thank you for being concerned, I am touched by that.

[compilerbitch.livejournal.com]

PS: Embarassingly, I completely missed this post first time around, so I have to apologise for being utterly oblivious to the impending breakup before today.

Sorry -- I should have been more attentive. :(

[liv]

being utterly oblivious to the impending breakup before today
Yes, when we were talking about lethargic_man going to Limmud it was obvious that you were completely missing the point of what I was trying to say, and I couldn't quite bring myself to say the words to clarify things.

Sorry -- I should have been more attentive. :(
Hey, no worries! I hardly expect everybody to pay rapt attention to every trivial word I happen to splurge here. You really shouldn't need to apologize or feel embarrassed at all.