Boobies!

[liv]

Er, well, actually this post is mainly about shopping, but that would be a much more boring title! I decided to go into town yesterday in order to get a few things I need for moving. But Mum and Granny got on my back about buying new clothes, which I don't really need (now or ever), and the trip turned into this marathon clothes shopping expedition of doom. But boobies were involved too, so I supopse that makes it a bit better.

Things I bought: Swedish dictionary and one of those teach yourself language courses, which I actually needed. But Swedish dictionaries are hard to find, and the one I did get is rather expensive and not very good. A bunch of light jumpers and cardigans and things, including a little denim jacket which I'm rather taken with. I would have been happy to do without them altogether, but since I don't want to quarrel with Mum and Granny, at least I bought them in extreme end of season sales, so I got a lot of clothes for relatively little money.

Things I failed to find: pyjamas which do the basic job of keeping me warm in bed. Everything for sale at the moment is ridiculously skimpy, and I don't have a moral problem with semi-indecent pyjamas, I have a practical one. Supposedly "sexy" pyjamas fail in their primary job of keeping me warm, and they don't do any good either because if there were anyone around to care what I look like in bed, I'd most likely sleep naked.

Any sensible shoes at all. High heels will make me fall over, sandals are not allowed in labs (for good reason) and everything flat-heeled on sale at the moment has no arch support and no ankle support and will not do for a job where I'll be on my feet all day. In the end I bought the faithful old Ecco black laceups, which are very good shoes but they also cost £60 (eep!)

Any trousers whatsoever which remotely fit. I think it's a combination of rather low waisted styles continuing to be in fashion, and the fact that the stable point for my weight appears to be drifting lower these days. I am not intentionally losing weight, but it's happening anyway, and it's sure as eggs not disappearing from my hips and bottom. So even more than usual, I have a smaller waist and bigger hips than the makers of women's clothes seem to expect (I'm also short, which doesn't help). But it's annoying to find lots of rather lovely trousers and have to discard them all because they are absolutely unwearable (not just vaguely wrong, but completely unwearable due to the cut). I think when the cold weather comes I'm going to go in for leggings under skirts; it seems to be my only option.

Anyway, the promised boobies. I did the Bravissimo thing, as recommended by a number of well-endowed friends. It was an interesting experience; their idea is that instead of measuring you with a tape-measure, the assisant watches you trying bras on and adjusts the size until you get something that fits perfectly. Which is probably a good idea, given the vagaries of clothes manufacturers generally! And it wasn't too intrusive; the assistant was very matter-of-fact about it, which I very much approve of. She offered to go out of the room while I changed bras, so even if you were shy you wouldn't have to do deal with a stranger seeing you topless; I'm not shy, and her obviously sensible attitude meant I didn't care.

I came out as 32E, in line with the Bravissimo theory that most women need to go down in back size and up in cup size to get a good fit. But 32E is really into Barbie doll territory! I can cope with the idea of being an E-cup, but how can there only be 32 inches around my chest?! Anyway, I bought this bra in the end. It's functional rather than wonderful, but I am impressed with how well it fits. Oh, and it's slightly more expensive than I would normally pay for a basic M&S bra, but not ridiculously so. And they didn't pressure me into buying anything, which I was worried about with all that personal attention.

Bravissimo has a good range, including sexy, plain, colourful, feminine, something for almost every taste. And this was reflected by their clientele, which did seem to include women of all ages and dress styles (I'm assuming people's tastes in bras vaguely reflects their tastes in outer clothes, but of course one never knows!) The trouble is that what I want in a bra is that it should be made mostly out of cotton (synthetics against my skin are sweaty and horrible), and that it should not have a horrible piece of wire under my breasts. And in any lingerie shop those preferences restrict my choices a bit. The assistant said that underwired styles are lot less uncomfortable if they fit properly, and she did demonstrate this principle, but I still prefer elastic rather than wire.

The other thing that's interesting about Bravissimo is the area where you wait to be assigned to a fitter. It's nice, with comfy chairs and a generally pleasant ambience. But the table has a stack of men's magazines! Obviously they have a lot of customers who drag bored boyfriends along and make them wait while they're being fitted. And they're carefully chosen men's magazines too, hobby mags and Men's Health and so on, rather than lad mags. I can imagine that women waiting for bra fitting would feel very uncomfortable if there were a stack of Nuts and Loaded in the waiting area! Interesting anthropological observation, though.

Anyway, that shopping trip took about 7 hours, which is time I can't really afford and is an extremely annoying way to waste a whole day. Also, I feel as if I'm sickening for something, something vaguely tonsilitis shaped. Which I really don't need when I'm about to move to Sweden! I really hope I'm wrong.

Comments

Shopping *and* boobies?

[syllopsium.livejournal.com]

Surely it only needs chocolate and cats to make it into a perfect post?

Are there really no warm pyjamas in M&S/Debenhams/BHS or do they just look horribly mumsy? The alternative is a t shirt and a pair of night shorts although I'm sure they have heating overseas :).

There isn't only 32" round your chest as a tape measure will prove - it's more likely to be 36"-38" around the fullest bit of your boobs due to the way bra sizing works. On the other hand your underbust is significantly less than 32" - so, yes, you're slim and busty although nowhere near the almost unobtainable proportions of a Barbie.

I wouldn't worry too much about Swedish dictionaries - the one you have should provide basic vocab and I'm willing to bet Swedish to English dictionaries will be easy to pick up once you get there.

Re: Shopping *and* boobies?

[liv]

I hate shopping. Even chocolate and boobies are not going to turn it into a pleasant way to spend the whole of Monday. But I suppose it's good if it makes for an enjoyable post.

I did look in all the mumsy places, because mumsy pyjamas is pretty much what I'm after. I think it's because it's summer, but everything on sale was either sleeveless or very short sleeved, including the stuff in plaid or floral prints which usually isn't intended to be sexy. And just skimpy, very little material even in the things which were cut to cover a bit more of the wearer than some options. Maybe the solution is the men's section; it often is when the clothes I want aren't available. Or, yeah, just sleep in a tsshirt and some old shorts or something. Thing is, I have old ragged pyjamas and discarded XL tshirts already, but I went shopping because I wanted new stuff.

As I understand the system, the back size measurment for bras is meant to be under the breasts, and the cup size takes into account the size of the breasts themselves. 32 inches sounds small, I mean, there's my ribs and lungs under there, even if I were skeletal! But you're right, calling it Barbie-doll is exaggerated.

I agree it's possible for women to be slim and busty; Bravissimo has a marketing niche precisely because it recognizes this physiological fact, unlike most women's clothes brands. I just don't think of myself that way; I think of myself as being plump with about average breasts. Oh well, being hourglassy is supposed to be attractive even if it makes it hard to find clothes. (And everyone who isn't absolutely dead average complains about how hard it is to find clothes that fit, so I shouldn't whinge about it.)

Re: Shopping *and* boobies?

[ixwin.livejournal.com]

As I understand it, 32 means that your actual underbust measurement is 27-28 inches (it's underbust + 4 inches if underbust is even, and +5 inches if underbust is odd).

[liv]

Eek, scary, that means my actual chest measurement is even more tiny than I was reckoning. It's good I didn't get out the tape measure to check. I feel all little and fragile now.

Re: Shopping *and* boobies?

[shreena.livejournal.com]

That's the traditional way of doing it and is alright if you have small-medium breasts. If you have large breasts the underbust measurement is what you want for bra size. When I've been fitted at Bravissimo, they give me 30-32 bras, when at more traditional shops, 36-38 and the Bravissimo ones fit _much_ better.

Re: Shopping *and* boobies?

[syllopsium.livejournal.com]

(reposted because it was using the default eye pic you don't like, instead of carwash)

I love shopping - mostly, anyway. It should be a pleasure especially if you take time out to have a nice lunch etc. You really must loathe it if you can't imagine a way chocolate and boobs could liven a shopping trip up!

Why not buy nice pyjamas when in Sweden - the added bonus of undoubtedly different styling will be a talking point, too :).

The back size does measure under the breast, and the cup size measures the difference between the underbust and the fullest part of the breast. However, due to the odd 'add 4"-5" to the underbust' rule, you're actually likely to be about 27-28" around your ribcage. It might seem small, but my chest is 32" and whilst slim, I'm not anorexic (obviously I don't have boobs..)

AIUI lungs aren't that big, and they do expand hugely when required so I'm not sure chest size is really an issue.

Maybe you need to ponder your self image a little..? We're not all blessed with amazing good looks and make the most of what we have. There's plenty that can be found to make yourself look and feel better, 'plain' or not. Whilst footwear like heels does require a certain amount of balance, there's plenty of other clothes that both look and feel good.

I don't really agree that a bra or other underwear is necessarily indicative of your outerwear - sure, you'll probably match more comfortable /average/cheaper underwear in day to day use, but if you merely want to feel more sexy/confident there's the choice to wear it anyway.

That is a nice bra you've bought and you are pretty, so try not to be so down :).

[liv]

Thank you for reposting with the non-scary pic!

I think part of the reason why I had such a miserable time yesterday is that I'd kind of planned on just nipping into town and grabbing a couple of things. So I didn't allow for lunch in the schedule, nor any real breaks, which made it not very surprising that I was exhausted by the time I finished at 5 o'clock! I need to get more flexible about changing plans. It should have been obvious by 1 o'clock that the couple of hours thing wasn't going to happen, but I had it fixed in my mind that I was in a hurry, so I didn't want to stop for unplanned distractions.

I guess I don't appreciate chocolate very much when shopping; I'm using it medicinally, kind of, my feet hurt and my arms hurt and I need sugar rush now. Which means that it cheers me up from bloody miserable to able to carry on, rather than cheering me from neutral to happy, which is chocolate's normal job. And tea, at least the decent kind, is quite difficult to combine with shopping.

[liv]

I think I gave the impression I have much worse body-image issues than I do. I mean, I basically quite like my body and appearance. And I do have plenty of clothes which suit me very well and are also comfortable. I can dress up pretty when I want to; I just don't want to be obliged to do so every day, and I don't want to be in pain when I do dress up. It's a lot more about laziness than negative self-image.

I mean, if I make a medium amount of effort, but still stick with comfortable clothes, I can be reasonably good-looking. I don't think I would ever be utterly devastatingly gorgeous if I made a big amount of effort or wore painfully constricting clothes. So it's not worth it. Similarly, for every day, I'm quite happy with making minimal effort – I usually wash, and brush my hair and wear clothes which I consider not to be ugly; I don't usually put on makeup or wear elaborate hairstyles or insist on new clothes every month. That amount of effort leaves me looking vaguely ok, which is good enough for me; most of the time I don't even want people to notice my appearance anyway.

Thank you for the compliment, though :-) Even self-confident people like me enjoy compliments.

Re: Shopping *and* boobies?

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Bravissimo has a marketing niche precisely because it recognizes this physiological fact,

Everything friends have said make me think Bravissimo is a clothing company that could have been designed by geeks with marketing experience: so straightforward, and actually considering the problems of the people buying not just what they'd like to sell. Mens clothes are generally less vital to size right, and often have two dimensions (circumference and length) but if you want more custom little presents itself.

mumsy pyjamas is pretty much what I'm after.

Is it possible to get slim male pyjamas? I stopped bothering with specific pyjamas when T-shirts and such seemed to fill the niche so much lazierly, but they come in small and generally are completely free of stupid frills. If they're baggy, isn't that still perfect?

And they're carefully chosen men's magazines too, hobby mags and Men's Health and so on, rather than lad mags. I can imagine that women waiting for bra fitting would feel very uncomfortable if there were a stack of Nuts and Loaded in the waiting area! Interesting anthropological observation, though.

ROFL. Good point. Though most men who would be a embarassed are likely to be as much of a problem with men's health -- "OMG, naked men! I'm not gay, honest!" :)

They should partner with a shop that sells things to bored men, which would then have a captive audience of bored waiting people and vice versa! :)

I hate shopping. Even chocolate and boobies are not going to turn it into a pleasant way to spend the whole of Monday.

Many people enjoy shopping. Or more specifically, I think, enjoy shopping for things they're excited about thinking about. I hate shopping for clothes -- I just want something that looks good with no HASSLE, but some people are really good at it and enjoy thinking about it. The same for computers. But I love shopping for what *I* think is fun stuff, for instance books. Oh my god, I didn't know she'd written another one. That cover looks lovely, I wonder if it's like [book]. Etc. There are two distinct sorts of shopping -- shopping we have to do with is horrible and shopping we want to do which is wonderful. They should have different names, and computer geeks should recognise they do the second too bu t about things other than food and clothes :)

Not even chocolate or boobies? What about chocolate *and* boobies? Or even better, chocolate ice-cream on boobies...?

[sunflowerinrain.livejournal.com]

Interesting! I've never considered Bravissimo, but now I shall. I buy from Figleaves, but it's so hit-and-miss, and the last 2 didn't fit. M&S used to suit me, but not any more (I seem to have found the weight you lost).

Shoes. pah. Shops full of pointy high-heeled tottermakers. Why do women let themselves be suckered into silly-looking things that damage feet and hurt to walk in? Next they'll be injecting poison into their lips to make them look like pigs' bottoms.

[liv]

I'm very favourably impressed with Bravissimo, and hey, even if you don't find anything appropriate, you've not lost much by trying.

Many women claim that (within reason, at least) pointy high heels can be comfortable. I think the secret is probably to learn a different gait, which of course high heels are intended to encourage. Myself, I won't wear uncomfortable clothes for the sake of vanity, but I'm not sure that's a particularly virtuous principle on my part. It's more that I'm lazy, and I tell myself I'm fairly plain anyway so there's no point putting effort (or money or pain) into my appearance.

[hatam-soferet.livejournal.com]

I've never seen a woman running for the bus in pointy high heels, which I think says it all.

From the picture, that looks like a jolly nice bra. I'm sorry you had to spend seven hours shopping, though. Is it worth buying an extra bra now so that you won't have to go back again for years and years? Come to that, is it worth getting an extra pair of Eccos? My Mum has a couple of decades' worth of Eccos sitting in her wardrobe; a smart pair, a slightly less smart pair, an everyday pair, a scruffy pair, and a painting pair. They move down the hierarchy every few years (although now she's entered a stage of frivolous dressing and unprecedented mobility, so she'll probably be buying high heels before very long, she had her ears pierced already).

I think the men's section is where you want to be for pyjamas. Apparently men don't need to look sexy in bed (thinks: patriarchy much? this is not fair).

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

I love your subject line. And Bravissimo is just the best name ever, isn't it?

[liv]

*bounce* Thank you. I think Bravissimo is indeed a very good choice of name.

Bravissimo

[lyssiae.livejournal.com]

is simply the best shop for seriously curvy women EVERYWHERE. You're right about the assistants working there - I'm a desperate prude when it comes to my body and I've never felt uncomfortable when trying on bras in a Bravissimo shop. Even though I've most often been in the Ealing branch, this has also been my experience in the Oxford shop: so it's clearly not an isolated thing. Hurrah for well fitting-bras!

Now all they have to do is open a few branches over here. But preferably somewhere sensible, ie, not Amsterdam :P

Bravissimo

[liv]

Yay, I'm pleased to hear that you enjoy Bravissimo too. And the not making you feel uncomfortable is such an important thing. Women get quite enough bombarded with inadequacy vibes from all directions, so every haven we can get matters. I do hope they expand internationally, at least partly because it pleases me when good businesses do well.

[sammee42.livejournal.com]

I see that _Bravissimo_ is for 'big-boobed women' (which is really a funny way for a professional establishment to put it), but why are all the models tiny-chested? It says that the lingerie are for celebrating curves, but ... no curves, as far as I can see! Plus, I am disappointed that my tiny boobies will get me disqualified. *tsk tsk*

[liv]

You're very right with this comment. I would very much have preferred to see genuinely curvy models associated with the brand. But on the plus side, at least they look as if they're enjoying themselves, they're not doing the porn-model vacant stare and fuck-me poses you see with a lot of lingerie models.

I think using phrases like big-boobed women is part of the Bravissimo brand. They're rather into distracting your attention from the fact that they're a business which is there to do boring things like make money, and want to project an image of being fun and friendly and cool.

It's true that small-breasted women would also benefit from a lingerie chain that doesn't treat women like hunks of meat. I guess Bravissimo are assuming that small-breasted women are either adequately catered by the mainstream market, or aren't likely to spend a lot of effort and money on bras. Perhaps they'll expand their basic concept one day though.

[sammee42.livejournal.com]

On the contrary, all women need to spend money for quality bras, no matter the size. As my hubby says, who is very much a cheapskate himself (*hates* to spend money), "Bras are one item of clothing that should be spared no expense. You need to take care of those at all costs!" I think he has in mind the effects of aging, and even small-breasted women can have such problems! :)

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

You might be able to find men's pajamas to suit you, relatively plain silk shorts and shirt. They tend to be made of more substantial fabric than women's pajamas. I suggest the kind with shorts because anything designed for a man is going to be designed for someone much taller than you, which is a problem for long pants.

For future reference, low-heeled shoes that are *almost* right but don't have arch support can sometimes by fixed by getting a set of supportive molded insoles and putting them under the liner. I got some at Ecco, to upgrade my snowboots from "warm and waterproof" to "warm, waterproof, and suitable for walking long distances in comfort."

[liv]

Thank you for this advice. Silk shorts and shirt in a plain style as designed for men would probably be just the thing. I shall look out for something like that next time I manage to drag myself into a clothes shop.

I'm not sure I'd know what almost right shoes would feel like. I know that everything I tried on either I couldn't get into (I have very square feet), or they were uncomfortable to walk in for 30 seconds so it was pretty obvious I wasn't going to be comfortable standing in them for hours on end. But insoles may well be worth investigating.

[sea-bright.livejournal.com]

I was going to suggest something similar on the shoe front: I have a pair of orthotic inserts which I bought on the recommendation of a physiotherapist when I was having problems with one of my ankles a couple of years ago. They aren't cheap (the pair I bought cost about £20), but they do make a real difference, and as the ones I have just sit in the bottom of the shoe (your foot holds them in place when you're wearing them) rather than going under the liner, you can transfer them between pairs of shoes, so you only need one set. There's also a cheaper alternative - the springy insoles they sell specifically for people who are on their feet all day. I haven't actually tried them myself, but they look like a good idea.

[blue-mai.livejournal.com]

i almost wrote a shopping entry myself last week but i've been rather remiss and busy...
so - if you ever come across a bra shop that caters also for small breasted women do let me know. i find it really really hard to by 'proper' bras. most of the time it doesnt matter, but you cant wear crop tops with fitted dresses, it just isnt right... i had some very plain non-wired ones (i think they were trainer bras) from HK starting from about 10 years ago, everytime i went over i would buy a few, but then that shop closed down and they are all pretty much past wearing now. i was very surprsied to find one that fit in m&s recently, i may go get another. it is moulded and wired though, and i'd really like a simple everyday, non-wired cotton thing that actually fits and is comfortable. they have nice styles that look like they should fit, but obviously they consider me to be outside of a normal size range. you reminded me actually, that getting fitted at a proper shop (i was thinking of rigby & peller but i have no idea really) and maybe getting a custom bra was on my list of "things to do when no longer an impoverished student". can't afford the custom bra yet but i can certainly afford at least 1 decent one.
m&s rant: i want to buy stuff from there, i like the styles, but they make it really difficult. as an example i saw some nice socks, the fairly expensive kind you buy in single pairs. so i bought a pair each of a couple of styles, to see if they were any good. i like both of them, so went back for more... this was a few months ago and i have quite persistently tried many branches, the internet, mid-week, weekend... no more good socks! late autumn, just as the cold was coming in, i went to get some thermal underwear. m&s is the place everyone thinks of for that kind of stuff. there i am in one of the big central london shops, next to several other women all looking at the distinctly empty thermal underwear racks... not just a fluke, i went back (yes i am persistent!) and they just hadn't seemed to stock them properly. rubbish. m&s rant over.

[blue-mai.livejournal.com]

briefly then, basically style was making me miserable. i didnt want to have to chose, i didnt want a look. but you know me, i like clothes, i like dressing up. i wanted some new clothes but i didnt want to go shopping, and i didnt want the clothes i saw. i wanted some vague idea of clothes in my head. i made some stuff but dont have a sewing machine myself nor that much time really and i'm not a very good seamstress... hey i know why i didnt post this before, it's nonsense, doesnt make any sense! oh dear. ok anyway, crisis over. phew. it's like a mental stumbling block of perception, this problem, and it has resolved itself, aren't you happy for me?
my usual mode of clothes shopping is to see stuff in windows or to wander into places unplanned (in between buying cds). week before last i had the day off and i went shopping - i planned on shopping all day - and i was really looking forward to it (has someone been putting something in my water?) in the end i met family and only went for a few hours, but i was pleased. then last week me and the boy both had day off and we went shopping. and i bought this absolutely wicked pair of boots. now the aim of both days was to buy a new pair of black combat trousers and hunt for the elusive pair of funky and comfy shoes (good for clubbing and strutting alike) and i didnt even make a start on either. but still, i am now a happy shopper. the boots are great - mid-calf red suede and a 4" heel! i've hardly worn heels since undergrad and they feel really wierd.
and suddenly i am dressing up more during the day, but it requires so much thinking. what am i going to wear? is swiftly followed by - what am i going to be doing today? cos i can only do the skirt and heels thing if i'm not going to be doing anything dangerous, out late, wandering about by myself etc. otherwise i feel way too vulnerable. so it's quite different having to plan, and think about that stuff. kinda restricting. i like spontaneous walks by myself at night. i definitely couldnt do heels everyday.
too much rambling, i will post at mine.
last - i frequently run for buses (or because i'm late) in pointy but only slightly heeled cowboy boots. not the most comfy but they are better for dancing than hiking boots /trainers, my other better-for-catching-buses options - you never know when you might be tempted to dance!

Hurrah for big boobies!

[(Anonymous)]

Yes I'm a bit behind with this whole blog thing, and have only just read this 2-week-old post. But hey, better late than never. And so I would just like to say that hurrah! You went to Bravissimo! [Though you should have bought the bra on brastop.com where it would have cost you about a tenner]. And welcome to the ranks of the big breasted.....

With love from your P'Tite Soeur, who is not so P'Tite after all :o)